Daniel and Jonas are . . .

[garnet]

Rosencrantz and Guildenstern. . . so does that make Bree Hamlet??

Okay. I added this signature two days ago, and then in the most recent video "Science Proved Nothing," it struck me that Daniel and Jonas are turning into Guildenstern and Rosencrantz (of the Tom Stoppard play which Bree alluded to when she was describing how her parents met).

In Hamlet, they are minor characters (NOT consistent with J&D), but in Stoppard's play, R&G are these two guys killing time while they wait around for something to happen. Basically, they have come to the castle to cheer up their old friend who is grieving the loss of a father and tortured by a mother's betrayal. Humm. . . So they sit around, play games, and conduct experiments until something exciting happens for like 30 seconds. Then they go back to sitting around.

Now, you can only carry that metaphor so far, but it really is interesting -- especially when you step back and look at the situation out of game, so to speak. Honestly, I agree more with Bree's dad's interpretation of the play. When you think about it, characters in a play have a pre-determined fate. The script is written and if they are going to die at the end, well that really can't be changed now, can it?

But what's fascinating about this is that isn't the case in LG15. The characters in the Breeniverse have a greater degree of control over their fate, i.e.free will than, say, Ophelia does. When the play is being written as it is performed, anything can happen. The character takes on a life of its own.

So, life immitates art. And that brings us back to the current situation -- what are J&D doing sitting around cherry-picking when they could be out there taking control of their fate? Or are they destined for the same sort of tragic end as our old friends R&G?

[CRYISME]

Very in-depth! Thumbs up!!

[Susan]

Rosencrantz and Guildenstern. . .

But what's fascinating about this is that isn't the case in LG15. The characters in the Breeniverse have a greater degree of control over their fate, i.e.free will than, say, Ophelia does. When the play is being written as it is performed, anything can happen. The character takes on a life of its own.

Or that would be it in a perfect world. I don't see much being written as it is performed action here these days.

[kittenishtrance]

Rosencrantz and Guildenstern

Who?

[Susan]

Rosencrantz and Guildenstern

Who?

Try reading the posts above you.

[kittenishtrance]

Rosencrantz and Guildenstern

Who?

Try reading the posts above you.

Be nice. Which ones? The Hamlet ones or the other ones garnet spoke of. I never heard of either until just now.

[garnet]

Who?

Let me try re-phrasing:

In Shakespeare's Hamlet, they are minor characters. Basically, they have come to the castle to cheer up their old friend and schoolmate, Hamlet, who is grieving the loss of his father and tortured by his mother's betrayal.

J&D aren't minor characters, but their purpose seems to be the same. They're here to help their friend who has just lost her dad and been betrayed by everyone she trusts.

Tom Stoppard wrote a play, Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead, which follows these two guys during the entire course of the action in Hamlet. When they're actually involved in the action of Hamlet, it's exciting for like a minute, but most of the time, they are sitting around killing time.

This also reminds me of J&D because that's all they seem to be doing lately!

If you need more info, I suggest renting the movie http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100519/.

It is definitely linked to LG15 because Bree Mentioned Rosencrantz & Guildenstern in video 43, "How my Parents Met." Bree says the theme of the play is Free Will vs. Determinism.

One of the boys was saying that because the two characters die in the end of Hamlet that nothing they do matters. That was my dad. My mom listened for a few minutes and decided that pretty much everything my dad was saying was wrong. . .

So she tapped him on the shoulder and she said that the message of the play was that these sad little characters had spent their lives arguing about the inevitability of their fate instead of actually doing something about it. And she said that if these boys didn’t watch out, they would be just like them.

Our frustrations with BJD & the story right now seem to be exactly this. They are sitting around arguing about the state of affairs when they should be out doing something.

[RockinDuckie558]

That is a really great connection! Good job garnet!

[emerrs11]

That is a really great connection! Good job garnet!

agreed!

[Spades]

R+G also betrayed Hamlet, though not intentionally if I am remembering correctly.

The whole idea was the Uncle King dude was going to send Hamlet off to England so that the King over there would kill him, but I forget how but Hamlet screws this up so that R+G, who helped screw him over, would be killed instead. I think Ham makes up a letter and gives that to the King instead of the "Kill Hamlet" one...

You don't think D&J are going screw this up for Bree, do you? And then be killed?

But when you think about it, this is possible.

Dan is still sort of shaken up over Alex I think. But still, even if he is not, any stroke of bad luck that has come in BDJ's way has always been answered by Danny constanly complaining and shutting down in the face of a challenge. He left Bree with Jonas before to go home, and he also has been drinking like crazy until recently (at least, that's what we are told). This is a pretty terrible weakness, the whole "It's too hard! I dont wanna!" idea.

Jonas goes nuts when things rub him the wrong way. Now he has a gun. The last thing BDJ needs is a trail of friggin bodies b/c a watcher looked at Jonas funny. Also, I think that Jonas would abandon the others if info on his family came up. No question. Unless he grows up a bit. This can also hurt them, in a big way.

R&G were pretty weak-minded, if I am recalling this right, and that is what lead to their downfall. D&J have to shape up.

[Particular]

Hey guys,

I really liked the connection Garnet (I think it was, sorry if I got it wrong) made to Rosencrantz and Guildernstern are Dead (awesome play by the way!). However I'm going to deviate from that position slightly. I recall over the course of one particular night and several glasses of tawny port, I considered the role of the ARG and its consequences. Let me see if I can explain my little idea, it's probably way off, but I thought it was intriguing...

Okay, we keep hearing about "free will" right? Good, keep that in mind, I'll be coming back to that shortly. In an ARG, the viewers have a say in what happens, supposedly, for the sake of this argument, let us assume that this is what happens. The creators read viewer feedback and adjust the plot accordingly. From this angle, you could almost say that playing the ARG is predetermining the fates of these characters. We treat them as real, so it makes them real, for the sake of the game. And they don't know about this right? So what about the watchers? Why do they never do anything? Well, okay, they saved the group once (apparently), fine, we can work with that. The watchers are US. Everybody who views the LG15 videos watches the developments in the plot, we are watching these characters closely, and occasionally they notice. They know someone watches, because of the forums, but this could very well be an “in-game” metaphor for us, the viewers.

Moving on, the Order. Okay then, why are we watching? Bree is on the run from this fanatical religion because her parents were taken away in mysterious circumstances, then we find out more. This is the beginning. It continues because we want it to. It continues because we watch. We contribute to the plot by discussing it on the forums, we help determine what tragedy will befall the group next. The “Oder-ites”, according to this theory could very well be right among us. They could be the posters who speculate about the future videos and write suggestions to the creators. This whole thing could be a metaphor for the fact that the viewers of this “game” are determining the events of these characters lives. This is where free will comes in. Yes, we may help to determine the major events, and even the alignment of the characters (how many of you said you wanted Alex to stay evil?), but ultimately, it is up to the characters (and allowing room for the creators too) to respond to the situation however they think is appropriate. Performing the ceremony may very well lead to the end of the series/game, but maybe not for the horrible reasons many people suspect. If the Order really is concerned with the free will of man, perhaps this could mean breaking free of letting other people determine their lives (that’s us) and about being proactive and feeling empowered. Subliminal morals perhaps? I don’t know, it made sense when I first thought of it. Let me know if you understand were I’m coming from. I’ll have to read through this later and see if I can

That’s it from me,
-- Particular --

[Lurker]

An interesting outside-the-box analysis there, Particular. I'd say there's a problem with it, though, in that LG15 itself is not an ARG, and that the Creators have said that - though we may influence events in a peripheral manner quite frequently - the core of developments are decided by them.

To paraphrase, they said something to the effect of "This is interactive. We adapt the show based on your comments. However, it is not a 'choose your own adventure'-style series."

And I still say we don't know that Alex is evil.

[Particular]

Hahaha, well I didn't think it would be foolproof, lol. I suppose that being interactive rather than an ARG would make more sense, especially with this fixation on Jules. Cheers for replying to my post Lurker (1st time!) I feel special, lol.

Adios
-- Particular --

[Lurker]

No problem, Particular. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. They were interesting. I look forward to more from you.

[Spades]

I hate it when you get an idea and when you write it down you know you screwed it up. Then you're going to have to fix it up, which is a huge pain in the ass. Happens to me way to often.

I personally think it continues this way because, well, what else can happen?

But it does make sense that we want to see what the Order is up to, and since we voice this, it happens in the show. Also makes sense on why Bree is headed to the soccer girl. I've seen a lotta posts proclaiming Bree as the new Tachyon, but I am still skeptical on how the creator's will be able to work in the action that would occur with that way of writing. I am not talking about shooting or stuff like that, it's just that the way the vids are shot now are pretty basic, and to create the kind of scene to work in a more active Bree would need a lot more work.

See? I have the idea and I'm trying like hell to get the point across really quick and simple and I'm having trouble. If you cant understand what the hell I'm saying, just say so and I'll re-write this post.