Facility J [Discussion] - Vial Destruction

trainer101 · Post by **trainer101** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:38 am

Luminous wrote:
ShardinsKitten wrote:Which reminds me, have we even decided we WANT to open the vials?
Or do we want to hold them hostage and see what happens?
This sounds like the beginning of a new and tastey thread. Do you want to start it, since you brought it up?

Since SK is apparently enjoying some quality snooze time, I'll jump in and get the thread started.

I vote to hold the vials unopened. We may need them for leverage further down the road. Plus, I want to know what the heck we're destroying. Are we dooming mankind or helping it?

ShardinsKitten · Post by **ShardinsKitten** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:59 am

Thanks for starting this for me Trainer! I was outside playing with the puppies actually lol.

Anyways I think we should hold them hostage too. Can't hurt to have some leverage on the old guy!

Luminous · Post by **Luminous** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:02 am

Here is a collection of messages from other threads that are pertinent to this discussion. We shouldn't make this descision casually. The fate of all mankind is at stake here. This is not a game!

TravelerJ19 wrote: Walter says "hi."
Walter was as pleasant to deal with as he always is. He told me that we have been helping him to destroy “the cure.” He wouldn’t explain any more than that. I don’t even know what that means. Sure he’s had some issues in the past, but he can’t really be that crazy can he? I don’t know if I should even keep helping him or not. I do know that if they were after him, then they’re probably after me now that I have more vials of the stuff. I guess I should send it out to some of you who may be smarter than I am and can figure it all out. You can decide what to do with the vials. Just send the full address to my YT account like before. Include the word that you get from the code in this message, so that I know that you are clever enough to know what to do with the vials.

trainer101 · Post by **trainer101** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:13 am

Walter wrote:"I would say that it is a cure for mankind."

Does this mean to cure mankind of a disease or that mankind is the disease?

ShardinsKitten · Post by **ShardinsKitten** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:21 am

trainer101 wrote:
Walter wrote:"I would say that it is a cure for mankind."
Does this mean to cure mankind of a disease or that mankind is the disease?

yea not sure. The thing is, if we don't open them now and just collect them we can use them to get more info (hopefully). We can always decide later that his intentions are for the best and destroy them at a later time. Deciding we open them now means we can't change our minds, deciding not to open them isn't set in stone, we can always open them later. It's like they say in cooking, you can always add more, but you can't take any out. (if that even makes sense).

ignatzmouse · Post by **ignatzmouse** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:09 am

I vote for destruction: I think Walter is on the up-and-up, that the Order has enough members that if they wanted to open the vials they wouldn't need our help.

I think he was pretty clear in his previous message: mankind is the disease, vials J1-J19 are the cure, we're destroying the cure before it can be administered. The only thing I'm not sure about is whether it's specificially mankind or not, it may be that The Cure's genetic manipulation is only on Y chromosomes.

Luminous · Post by **Luminous** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:25 am

trainer101 wrote:
Walter wrote:"I would say that it is a cure for mankind."
Does this mean to cure mankind of a disease or that mankind is the disease?

I wonder how up to date Walter is on terminology. Back in his day "mankind" would mean "humankind", and would not be sex specific.

I wonder why Walter, after all these years, is suddenly so hot to "destroy" these vials. Maybe he has been holding onto them as long as he possibly can, and it's crucial that they be "destroyed" now. There may be a timing factor.

Suppose OPA, is engaged in some kind of nefarious genetic engineering or chemical warfare activities for which chemical J is the only cure. Perhaps by "destroying" them we are instead releasing them to do their work, to save us from what might otherwise be our own destruction, and if we delay destroying them, there won't be time for "the cure" to activate. If it's a bacteria, maybe it needs time to multiply before it becomes effective.

Does this make sense to anyone?

As crusty, "addled" and secretive as Walter is, he has grown on me, and I am beginning to trust him.

As far as how to cast my vote, I'm still on the fence.

chershaytoute · Post by **chershaytoute** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:48 am

What do we know about Walter's current state of health? Could he be passing on a legacy and testing us to see if we're worthy? This could be why the timing...

I am concerned, though, about the fact that we're not being asked to destroy the vials in absolutely sterile conditions.

Luminous · Post by **Luminous** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:01 am

chershaytoute wrote:What do we know about Walter's current state of health? Could he be passing on a legacy and testing us to see if we're worthy? This could be why the timing...

He's 87 - take it from there

I think it's likely that his actions are at least partly motivated by the need to "clear his conscience" before he's off to meet his maker.

chershaytoute wrote:I am concerned, though, about the fact that we're not being asked to destroy the vials in absolutely sterile conditions.

I agree - what he is asking of us seems pretty random and haphazard. Seems if "destruction" were truely the desired outcome, he would want this done under more controlled conditions. This is one of the reasons I think we are actually "releasing" the cure, rather than destroying it.

For myself, an important question to answer is, should we really trust that "Walter knows best"?

chershaytoute · Post by **chershaytoute** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:14 am

Ah, in my family, 87 doesn't mean ancient, it just means getting up there - that's why I asked about health as opposed to age...

But that "Walter knows best" line rankled when he said it. Either he's testing us to take over the legacy (in which case, we need to know as much as possible about it), or he's setting us up as patsies for the destruction of...some portion of the world as we know it.

The point about mankind=humankind. Mankind could mean all people (it wasn't gender specific when I was growing up or even, quite, until recently), it could mean all men, it could mean the world...but whatever it means, I don't think we want to be the means for the destruction of it without more knowledge - and the knowledge that Walter=addled doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside...

Luminous · Post by **Luminous** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:46 am

chershaytoute wrote:Ah, in my family, 87 doesn't mean ancient, it just means getting up there - that's why I asked about health as opposed to age...

Even in good health, this is the time of life when an old man's fancies turn towards clearing the slate of any wrongs he may have committed over the course of his life.

chershaytoute wrote: But that "Walter knows best" line rankled when he said it.

Me too. I got quite ornery with him when he came up with that.

chershaytoute wrote:Either he's testing us to take over the legacy (in which case, we need to know as much as possible about it), or he's setting us up as patsies for the destruction of...some portion of the world as we know it.

I think you have something here - I know that Walter is definitely testing us, as is TravelerJ19. Each of them have said as much. Interesting idea - that the J chemicals may be a ruse to test whether or not we are capable of handling the real "legacy", whatever that may be. This actually makes alot of sense to me. Or, as you said, he could be setting us up as Patsies to take the fall. Somehow, this makes less sense to me.

chershaytoute wrote:that Walter=addled doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside...

Well said, Cher

blahblablee · Post by **blahblablee** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:55 am

Maybe he wants us to take the vials hostage...like he's testing us to see what measures we will take to do what we think is "right" or what needs to be done.

Another thought that came to mind:
The phrase

"for all mankind"...
The way I read it made it seem like it was better for mankind in his opinion...

Also made me think some kind of super race or genocide of some kind...

Just some thoughts running through my mind.

Ziola · Post by **Ziola** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:31 pm

Well, whatever you all decide, just let me know. If it is decided that the vials should not be destroyed, you can simply blame me, the Order infiltrator

janesalteredstates · Post by **janesalteredstates** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:12 pm

Either way I think it is best to keep at least a couple in tact. Obviously it will not harm anyone. Destroying something that might be useful is dumb.
Obviously.

If I ever get a drop I'm willing to be someone who keeps the vials.

Ziola · Post by **Ziola** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:58 pm

Well Ladies and Gentlemen...the package is on its way. As I said before, if you decide that destroying these vials shouldn't happen, I am your best cover. After all, I am with the Order