Is it just me...

HasecBinUsr · Post by **HasecBinUsr** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:09 pm

...Or does anyone else miss the innocence and believability of the beginning of the series?

Marbella · Post by **Marbella** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:41 pm

Welcome HasecBinUsr

Some people do prefer the beginning tone of the program. However, some of the scenes still feature innocent moments, such as when Bree filmed her vid from Tachyon's training camp.

As for believable? I suppose that all depends on the person. I've known people involved in cults, so some of that doesn't seem all that far fetched to me!

imagin · Post by **imagin** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:02 pm

If the beginning had really been all that believable, no one would have been looking for proof it was fake...

HyeMew · Post by **HyeMew** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:17 pm

To answer the original question, I do.

imagin wrote:If the beginning had really been all that believable, no one would have been looking for proof it was fake...

As one of those people, I was not looking for proof she was fake because she was running from an all-powerful order or because she was being lifted off the roof by helicopter, it's because I thought the stuff she was doing was just too professional for a girl in her room- too witty, too funny. The early and present episodes lack believability (somewhat) in totally different ways, one must seperate between realism and absurdism. The early episodes were at least realistic (for the most part), but just too perfect to not have a guiding hand behind them. Some of the things that have happened in the many months since the reveal though aren't believable because they lack all realism. I much prefer watching a girl who could possibly be real, not one who is living a life so extraordinarily abnormal.

Killthesmiley · Post by **Killthesmiley** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:22 pm

it's a story.
it's a show.

Do people complain that lost is unrealistic? because it is...
Do people complain that Heroes is unrealistic? because it is...
Do people complain that Snow White is unrealistic? ... because it is

the answer is no.

edit to add:

I'm not trying to flame...but this quote really needs to be questioned because ...well obivious..

I much prefer watching a girl who could possibly be real, not one who is living a life so extraordinarily abnormal.

why are you still watching then, if you don't like what you see?

bethy · Post by **bethy** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:45 pm

Killthesmiley wrote:
I much prefer watching a girl who could possibly be real, not one who is living a life so extraordinarily abnormal.
why are you still watching then, if you don't like what you see?

Even more curious, why are your moderating it, too? That line caught me, too, KTS.

Look guys, it's a work of fictions, it always has been.

I like a good story...I don't care if it's not "possibly real" -- it's a story. That's what makes it fun. If every story in the world were possibly real, life would be boring as hell.

HyeMew · Post by **HyeMew** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:14 pm

Killthesmiley wrote: Do people complain that lost is unrealistic? because it is...
Do people complain that Heroes is unrealistic? because it is...
Do people complain that Snow White is unrealistic? ... because it is

the answer is no.

Perhaps you don't understand because you weren't watching when it was realistic, but obviously nobody watches a show about people with super powers or one about a future princess that lives with 7 dwarves and a witch for realism. If Bree's parents were midgets, maybe I'll cut her slack the minute she starts twichting her nose and displaying super powers, however I'm terribly sorry if I was wrong when watching the early videos about a girl in her room, hiking, doing a camp play, etc. and not foresseing that soon she'd be getting picked off a skyscraper by a helicopter commendeered by her friend Brother or taking Jonas to the vet.

Killthesmiley · Post by **Killthesmiley** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:33 pm

HyeMew wrote:
Killthesmiley wrote: Do people complain that lost is unrealistic? because it is...
Do people complain that Heroes is unrealistic? because it is...
Do people complain that Snow White is unrealistic? ... because it is

the answer is no.
Perhaps you don't understand because you weren't watching when it was realistic, but obviously nobody watches a show about people with super powers or one about a future princess that lives with 7 dwarves and a witch for realism.

I hate it when people say that to me because I watched the first episode, like...the day after it hit youtube...so cut that BS out, right now. I've been around jsut as long, if not longer then you.
SECONDLY: Once this was revealed as a show, the possibilties for realism were thrown out the door, into the shredder and then into the incinerator. You can not expect a fictional show to be as realistic as you seem to want it to be. If it was, it wouldn't be entertaining to the vast majority of the veiwship we have to this date.
Thirdly, you would be surprised on the feats that people go through to get out of the long claws of cults. This story is more realistic then a lot of people give it credit for. Every once in a while the documentery channel, TLC and CNN have special on Cult's and former members and escape stories. Some of them are miraculous, some of them are amazing, and some of them literally mirror what the character Bree is going through.

I don't think you understand the feats people really go through in situations when escaping cults in certain societies. While the helicopter is pretty dramatic and drastic, it has been used before. While the idea of a former cult member being used to infiltrate the order seems...unrealistic, it's been done.

It's a show. It's a fictional show. And thats the point, and the reason why people are getting frustrated with the constant bickering about how unrealistic it is. Simply because fiction, is unrealistic. Fiction is not real. Fiction is a work of the imagination. Lonelygirl15 can not be real anymore, and people need to let go of that possibility.

HyeMew · Post by **HyeMew** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:08 am

Oh I totally understand some people having to go through great lengths to free themselves (or more usually family members) from cults, though the Heaven's Gate people and the like do not also run the world. Bree is very much out of and away from the Order, but she is unable to shake them because she is always being followed and the Order has operatives in every office in America so there's literally no way for her to escape.

Others have described too how the Order could have been a realistic entity if it was just powerful in one town or maybe parts of a city, but that is destroyed when it is made out that they have an extreme hold on power throughout the entire world as the Order does.

Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:12 am

HyeMew wrote:Perhaps you don't understand because you weren't watching when it was realistic, but obviously nobody watches a show about people with super powers or one about a future princess that lives with 7 dwarves and a witch for realism.

While that's true, it's really not reasonable to use the beginning of anything as the basis for what the rest of it's going to be. This is true of any of those countless works of fiction where people get transported from our world to a fantastical one.

Killthesmiley wrote:Once this was revealed as a show, the possibilties for realism were thrown out the door, into the shredder and then into the incinerator. You can not expect a fictional show to be as realistic as you seem to want it to be. If it was, it wouldn't be entertaining to the vast majority of the veiwship we have to this date.

I've got to agree with Kelly here. Once it became fiction, the majority of viewers' expectations changed - especially since they'd already introduced those darker suggestions (Cassie, whom Daniel couldn't remember; the picture of Crowley; the shots, the pills, the ceremony, etc.).

I'd bet one reason they decided to reveal the show was produced when they did is so that they wouldn't find the FBI doing an investigation into whether a real 16-year-old girl's cult-dedicated parents were abusing her.

Killthesmiley wrote:Thirdly, you would be surprised on the feats that people go through to get out of the long claws of cults. This story is more realistic then a lot of people give it credit for. Every once in a while the documentery channel, TLC and CNN have special on Cult's and former members and escape stories. Some of them are miraculous, some of them are amazing, and some of them literally mirror what the character Bree is going through.

I don't think you understand the feats people really go through in situations when escaping cults in certain societies. While the helicopter is pretty dramatic and drastic, it has been used before. While the idea of a former cult member being used to infiltrate the order seems...unrealistic, it's been done.

I think the Heaven's Gate stuff and the Peoples Temple incident alone are enough to say "Wacky stuff can happen when cults are involved." I mean, for God's sake, a United States congressman, an NBC cameraman, and some other people were gunned down by Jim Jones' minions on an airstrip while their companions ran for a Cessna and took off to safety under a hail of gunfire. The dead cameraman's camera even continued recording the scene after he was dead.

I know most people don't go through this stuff, but it isn't supposed to be an average girl's life. We even know she's supposed to be someone special to the Order. The only real problem I see in the story is the Order's power being too great, but that's been discussed at length and I think we all agree on it.

EDIT:

HyeMew wrote:Others have described too how the Order could have been a realistic entity if it was just powerful in one town or maybe parts of a city, but that is destroyed when it is made out that they have an extreme hold on power throughout the entire world as the Order does.

You must have posted while I was writing my message.

Yeah, I've got to say the story would have been better and the organization more believable if it were like that. I know I keep using the example, but The Pride in "Runaways." That should have been the model. It was even in LA.

Marbella · Post by **Marbella** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:16 am

BTW.. After the Tachyon/Helicopter episode, most people were posting it was he best episode yet. Even the word "BANG" on the screen made it obvious that the Creators were doing something cartoon-like and not intended to be taken as real. (just MHO)

ShardinsKitten · Post by **ShardinsKitten** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:50 am

I like the story much better now. JMO, the creators stated something in an interview that the story direction/story changed because their viewership changed, they have to make the story what the majority of the fans/viewers want, and at the level of their fans/viewers. I'll have to find the link later if anyone wants, I'm too tired to do it now.

This is what fiction and interactive story telling is all about. We have had a couple vids, in fact the last two vids have been very much like those first vids. Heck even proving science wrong was mentioned in this last one. They still try to touch on that and go back to it, and give the more in-depth fictional action adventure story.

It's not easy to give everyone what they want, but the creators do seem to work hard at keeping everyone happy.

Killthesmiley · Post by **Killthesmiley** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:57 am

though the Heaven's Gate people and the like do not also run the world.

What were those secret societies that the Bush's were members of? And John Kerry? hmm... Thats pretty damn close to controlling a good portion of the world

The Skulls was based off of that same secret society.

I consider Secret Societies, the same as cults.

Kasdeja · Post by **Kasdeja** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:09 am

That college born society is actually called The Skulls. They always talk about it in the documentaries about Templars, Illuminati, etc.

Killthesmiley · Post by **Killthesmiley** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:26 am

Kasdeja wrote:That college born society is actually called The Skulls. They always talk about it in the documentaries about Templars, Illuminati, etc.

OOHH ok...I thought it was something different. Templar rings a bell with me, but that could be because I'm researching the DaVince Code.

well either way, it's a "secret" orginization, that sometime is considered cult like. Many presidents, CEOs, Political figures world wide have been members, and are still members.

There are "secret" orginizations out there, that do have high influence on world powers.