[DISCUSSION] Glenn ... (Off-topic from original post)

[curiousGeorge]

Not to mention that his videos are always highest viewed

Not to rain on your parade, but the viewer numbers do not support this assertion, either on YT or Revver. They definitely created a large buzz here on the phorums among ARG phans but saying they resulted in the largest number of views is not correct, even given the shoddy metrics associated with YT.

The majority of the LG vids are viewed on YT and if you check the viewer stats you will see that my premise is supported by the numbers. Glenn's vids appealed to a very vocal, but actually fairly small number of the total LG viewership. Sorry, but the numbers don't lie.

The Creators did the right thing if they got rid of some kind of deviant who targeted young girls. This is in no way a reflection of his talent, just the facts surrounding his firing.

I personally enjoyed some of his vids, but having someone asking for nude photos from phans is absolutely reprehensible and suicide for a professional production. Good riddance.

[Languorous Lass]

Given the mods' actions in locking the other threads, this seems as good a place as any to note that when the news about Glenn first hit the forum, I had planned to post an explanation of sexual harassment law, but decided not to because people seemed to want to move on. However, if anyone still wants me to do so, please PM me and I'll write something up and post it.

[HyeMew]

I think the most important thing, echoing CuriousGeorge, is to keep in mind what they hear here at the phorum is not the voice of the fans. It is only an extremely small percentage of those who watch, and I feel that in the past those here have had a disproportionate amount of influence over the course of the series. This is not to either badmouth anyone here, as I am a phorumite too, nor to say the opinions of people here are not important, but it is easy to fall into the trap of assuming what people say here is what all fans think (esp. because it's near impossible to read all the youtube comments), but in fact those that comment here are just a small group in a sea of fans, and just because someone is the most vocal doesn't mean they are a majority.

[Killthesmiley]

I think what people need to realize is that if they were the creators, and were faced with this situation you would have to look at it for a moral, ethical AND business stand point.
None of the companies that they are looking to for product placement would want to be associated with such unethical practices.

I think the most important thing, echoing CuriousGeorge, is to keep in mind what they hear here at the phorum is not the voice of the fans. It is only an extremely small percentage of those who watch

I think this is one of the few times I agree with Hye. The numbers are not there to support the claims that Glenns videos were the most popular. They were awesome videos, but # wise, they are at the bottom of the chain. Glenn was an amazing asset to LG15, but as amazing as he was he broke a rule. And there needs to be consequences. It's not a good compairison, but people should know that since you were little. If you broke a rule, your parent(s) would have placed appropriate consequences.

Frankly, I don't know if this should even be discussed on the forums anymore. We don't know the full story. We don't know what info the creators have. Obviously they have all the information that they need, and they are sticking to their decision. Remember, these guys are corprate lawyers, these guys a business men. They know how to deal with situations like this one. They followed normal protocol. I don't think this is a fight worth fighting. Because we just don't know the entire story, and will never know.

[ravensgrace]

Not to mention that his videos are always highest viewed

Not to rain on your parade, but the viewer numbers do not support this assertion, either on YT or Revver. They definitely created a large buzz here on the phorums among ARG phans but saying they resulted in the largest number of views is not correct, even given the shoddy metrics associated with YT.

The majority of the LG vids are viewed on YT and if you check the viewer stats you will see that my premise is supported by the numbers. Glenn's vids appealed to a very vocal, but actually fairly small number of the total LG viewership. Sorry, but the numbers don't lie.

The Creators did the right thing if they got rid of some kind of deviant who targeted young girls. This is in no way a reflection of his talent, just the facts surrounding his firing.

I personally enjoyed some of his vids, but having someone asking for nude photos from phans is absolutely reprehensible and suicide for a professional production. Good riddance.

I'm sorry to interrupt your rain on her parade, but presumption of innocence is a legal right, and furthermore, I see nothing in Jewelybug's post stating talent should supersede wrongdoing. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. At this point, we've seen scant evidence to support the allegations, and even evidence contrary to the allegations. None of which circumvents presumption of innocence. If you've seen something more I implore you to share that information with the creators or a moderator.

I've also noticed that you've listed your occupation as Agent Provacateur [sic], and your location as Rancor Cove. Concisely stated, and I must concur that both choices are represented in your post.

I find it disturbing that this forum once offered more respect to its member, Tannhaus, than that now being offered to Glenn, an LG15 team member. From what I recall those were far more serious allegations, and posted by an underage member who had been directly involved in the incident. That was one incident which eventually led to the policy against personal attacks.

[Killthesmiley]

doesn't matter what "evidence" we saw, obviously te creators have muc more information then we do. And Obviously they aren't going to share with us te nitty gritty details...
So this is a pointless thread at this point.
We understand people are upset that glenn has been axed (at least to a degree) and the creators understand that as well. But whining about it isn't going to change anything.
The creators have as much evidence as they need.

I perosnally feel that the moderators should follow up on thier policies that they've implied and cut this thread short, as I can already see that it's going to turn into another argumentive thread that isn't going to be productive. Just disruptive.

And to repeat what so many people ahve been saying all week, we have to drop this subject and get over it and move the hell on.

[Danielle]

The Creators did the right thing if they got rid of some kind of deviant who targeted young girls. This is in no way a reflection of his talent, just the facts surrounding his firing.

These allegations have already been cleared up. Glenn has not targetted anyone in the IRC chat, let alone young girls. I'm the only person under the age of the majority to have spoken with Glenn in an out of game context, and nothing was inappropriate, etc. I am well versed with my Criminal Code as well, so please don't try to tell me that simply speaking with someone under that age is illegal or anything of that sort... because then many of you are guilty of this as well.

Please try to stay caught up in these matters if you plan on making anymore allegations that not only carry very serious weight, but could end up doing much worse things than ending a man's career.

[curiousGeorge]

I want to know why all the allegations made by the young ladies have been deleted. There is no legal liability for the Creators as postings on the board on not their legal culpability.

By deleting the posts, they are giving the impression that they are covering something up. The Worst Case Scenario is that Glenn is completely innocent of the accusations and that the deletion of the posts will do nothing to contradict these (possibly) false accusations.

Censoring the posts only makes him look more guilty and that the Creators are trying to cover it up.

[immortal1]

Not to mention that his videos are always highest viewed

Not to rain on your parade, but the viewer numbers do not support this assertion, either on YT or Revver. They definitely created a large buzz here on the phorums among ARG phans but saying they resulted in the largest number of views is not correct, even given the shoddy metrics associated with YT.

The majority of the LG vids are viewed on YT and if you check the viewer stats you will see that my premise is supported by the numbers. Glenn's vids appealed to a very vocal, but actually fairly small number of the total LG viewership. Sorry, but the numbers don't lie....

I think looking at the most popular vids to see what the viewers like is the wrong way to go, instead look at the vids with low view numbers to see what they don't like. In a recent interview Miles said the average vid gets between 300,000 and 700,000 views. Although, from the same interview it seems their goal is to achieve a weekly number. GR's lg15 vids have managed to maintain the status quo. The Human Ransom which is probably the centerpiece of the intergration got 333,000 views which is at the bottom of the average. I think it's fair to say they haven't hurt or helped. They certainly haven't taken the series to new heights which seems to be the popular sentiment among GR suppoters.

Looking at OpAphid and Tachyon vid views is even more misleading because I think most people assume those are unique views whereas they are more likely multiple views do to game players watching repeatedly to analyze them.

[ShardinsKitten]

The Creators did the right thing if they got rid of some kind of deviant who targeted young girls. This is in no way a reflection of his talent, just the facts surrounding his firing.

These allegations have already been cleared up. Glenn has not targetted anyone in the IRC chat, let alone young girls. I'm the only person under the age of the majority to have spoken with Glenn in an out of game context, and nothing was inappropriate, etc. I am well versed with my Criminal Code as well, so please don't try to tell me that simply speaking with someone under that age is illegal or anything of that sort... because then many of you are guilty of this as well.

Please try to stay caught up in these matters if you plan on making anymore allegations that not only carry very serious weight, but could end up doing much worse things than ending a man's career.

Unless you have the proof to back this up. This is nothing but speculation. To my knowledge the creators have not made a statement saying what Glenn has done, nor the exact reasons he was fired.

As far as vid views, like immortal said you can't really go off those, lots of videos are re watched by the same people. I don't think Glenn took LG15 to a whole new level, his videos were great and he is very talented, but I don't think this is the place for him right now, not in the midst of all this innocent or guilty.

[Danielle]

@ ShardinsKitten;

Are you asking curiousGeorge to back things up, or myself?

[tannhaus]

I find it disturbing that this forum once offered more respect to its member, Tannhaus, than that now being offered to Glenn, an LG15 team member. From what I recall those were far more serious allegations, and posted by an underage member who had been directly involved in the incident. That was one incident which eventually led to the policy against personal attacks.

Ummm excuse me? First, I was accused of being a pedophile by someone who:

A. Made a fake account to do so
B. Claimed I said something in a post on the board that had been READ BY A MODERATOR.
C. Had never once spoken to me in private
D. Is, in fact, over 18.

The moderator locked the post because it had descended into arguments, then at my request deleted what I had said in the post...which had to do with sexuality in religions such as Thelema and reopened the thread...at which time the person started accusing me of saying things I had not said at all. When the moderator stood up for me and said she was the one that deleted the post, the person created a fake account and then started accusing me of being a pedophile....not even attempting to show proof of any sort.

So, before you drag my name into this, get your facts straight. You're supposed to be a moderator...act like one. Don't insinuate things about members here unless you know what you're talking about.

[ravensgrace]

The moderator locked the post because it had descended into arguments, then at my request deleted what I had said in the post...which had to do with sexuality in religions such as Thelema and reopened the thread...at which time the person started accusing me of saying things I had not said at all. When the moderator stood up for me and said she was the one that deleted the post, the person created a fake account and then started accusing me of being a pedophile....not even attempting to show proof of any sort.

Thank you for posting, Tannhaus. That incident completely proves my point, and is the reason I used your name. As I stated, those were serious allegations, and I am happy they were nothing more. Without the original posts it was impossible to verify all of the details, so I could not verify if they were ever proven false. Thank you for refreshing my memory.

So, before you drag my name into this, get your facts straight. You're supposed to be a moderator...act like one. Don't insinuate things about members here unless you know what you're talking about.

I appreciate your candor, but I have always posted with the utmost respect for everyone. Your derisive and aggressive comment to "act like one" is already supported by my previous actions and my posting history.

If I chose my words poorly I apologize.

[The Creators]

We ask that you please do not discuss these issues or make claims about Glenn based on conjecture. Please respect us while we gather information and come to a decision. We will be posting a formal statement as soon as possible. I'm going to lock this thread. Thanks!