Trait Negative

Aponi · Post by **Aponi** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:33 pm

Ok i'm going to make this thread to discuss how to make Bree trait negative, based on what we know about why she's trait postive and how Bree's dad was trying to make her trait negative.

So of course we found out in 'Let's Play Doctor' that Julia is trait negative, and also that she wasn't adopted, which rules her out as a ceremony canidate. But Bree is trait postive, which seems to be fairly uncommon because the Order really really wants her to do the Ceremony.

Now i'm going to pull a Nikki B and talk about the drugs :p
Waaay back in 'Undisclosed Location' DB shows us a box with a symbol on it, a lemniscate. Here is the LGPedia article on that: http://www.lonelygirl15.com/lgpedia/ind ... Lemniscate. This is the logo of some medical company Bree's dad worked for, and from the LGpedia article i'm thinking it's probably just mimicking the double helix, esspecially now that we know about the ribozymes. If there's any other significance to it, I don't know, but we could look.

Daniel tracks a shipping label from the box and ends up at a warehouse in 'Breaking and Entering'. He finds a box that contains Epogen. Since then, lots of reserch was done on it, and here's what the LGpedia says on it: http://www.lonelygirl15.com/lgpedia/ind ... OGEN.C2.AE.
And just to quote what seems to be the most relevant so you don't have to follow alot of pages.

EPOGEN® is an injectable drug for the treatment of anemia. It contains epoetin alfa, a man-made version of erythropoietin, which is a protein produced naturally for the production of red blood cells. It is produced through recombinant DNA technology.

Now, all this eventually leads to ribozymes, which i'm clueless about, so if someone wants to post a little dumbed-down version of what they do, how they do it, how it relates to Bree and 'trait postive' i'd be very grateful. Also a qoute from 'Opening the Box' pretaining on what the shots were actually for.

This notebook also tells us that Bree's dad had been giving her shots of something to help lower her levels, trying to make her "trait negative"

So this all leads to these questions, which I'm pretty sure need to be answered so we can figure out how to make Bree trait negative.
Why Epogen? So far we know that it increases red blood cells, but how would that make Bree trait negative?
Iron pills and a diet that is low in sugar, high in red meat? This also seems to point to making more red blood cells, but again, why?
And up until now, we thought all this was preperation for the ceremony, but now we know that Bree's dad was in fact, not trying to prep her for the cermony. So, was he also controlling her diet and the iron pills? Or was this actually ceremony prep, as her mother and Lucy would no doubt be watching what she ate and what pills she took. Bree's dad probably was only controlling the thing he could, her injections.

So, you all want to look for answers with me?

(Sorry, I just noticed how long this is! But I thought it would be helpful to have all this in one place, so we can work through it)

Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:55 pm

Definitely the questions that need to be answered. What I'm most curious about is "Are more red blood cells good or bad for ceremony preparation?" And if they're good, then we have to find out what extra factor the Epogen would have that would make Bree trait negative.

I think it would be too much to swallow that neither Bree's mom or Lucy would have noticed if Bree wasn't eating the right diet, so it seems most likely that her dad only changed the injections.

Spades · Post by **Spades** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:48 pm

1. http://www.drugs.com/mtm/epogen.html
2. http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/epogen_ids.htm

Here is a very interesting excerpt I found, from the Drugs.com link. Maybe this was discussed before, but I'll stick it here anyways:

What happens if I overdose?
Seek emergency medical attention if you think you have used too much of this medicine.

Symptoms of an epoetin alfa overdose may include headache, dizziness, itching (especially after bathing), fullness in your upper stomach, redness of the face, shortness of breath, and vision problems.

[[I have a hazy memory of the early vids and have no time to watch them, but I swear Bree described some of this stuff. Why would her dad put her in such danger? Did he actually want to kill her so she couldn't do the ceremony, or cared for her that much b/c it is just that bad?]]

What should I avoid while using epoetin alfa?
Epoetin alfa can cause side effects that may impair your thinking or reactions. Be careful if you drive or do anything that requires you to be awake and alert.

[[Perhaps why Bree was not taught by her parents how to drive, and maybe she did not want her daughter to go to parties b/c of impaired thoughts and dizziness, making her kind of an "easy target"]]

............................................................................................................

What other drugs will affect epoetin alfa?

There may be other drugs that can affect epoetin alfa. Tell your doctor about all the prescription and over-the-counter medications you use. This includes vitamins, minerals, herbal products, and drugs prescribed by other doctors. Do not start using a new medication without telling your doctor.

[[Another reason why Bree's dad did not want her out, she might interact with and possibly absorb harmful agents]]

But I still do not get what the hell the epogen is for, in regardance to Trait Negativity.

Anyone?

P.S My brain hurts from the first site, so I did not really read the other one, so I'm hoping it is not full of crap.

Not that I can truly back any of the information stated in either one of these sites, I'm not a Doctor.

hella · Post by **hella** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:57 pm

at what point in time did brees dad realized he didnt want her to do the ceremony?

Spades · Post by **Spades** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:18 pm

hella wrote:at what point in time did brees dad realized he didnt want her to do the ceremony?

*opens mouth as if to say something, then closes it, and strokes his chin*

Aponi · Post by **Aponi** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:21 pm

hella wrote:at what point in time did brees dad realized he didnt want her to do the ceremony?

That's probably another good question.
Probably when he found out why it's supposed to be so scary and/or dangerous.
But that means he knew what it was. Probably exactly what it was, which means it's not exactly as mysterious as the TAAG thinks it is.

And thanks Spades, for the research into Epogen!

Those are nasty side effects
I know that Bree did say the shots didn't leave her feeling well, thats probably why.

I'm thinking we might have to go bug DB and Jonas into scanning or summarizing or something that notebook, and maybe bug Taylor for the graphs/charts. I don't think any of this will make sense without it. It's too bad now we probably won't get anything because we have to worry more about crazy Bree

hella · Post by **hella** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:31 pm

Spades wrote:
hella wrote:at what point in time did brees dad realized he didnt want her to do the ceremony?
*opens mouth as if to say something, then closes it, and strokes his chin*

i cant tell if this response was cause its a good question or cause its an obvious question and you are being sarcastic...lol its so hard to tell on this board...

but yeah, i mean he knew that bree wasnt his child..he actually accepted a random baby and raised her, he must have known why he was doing that...so how why and when did he change his mind?

Spades · Post by **Spades** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:46 pm

hella wrote:
Spades wrote:
hella wrote:at what point in time did brees dad realized he didnt want her to do the ceremony?
*opens mouth as if to say something, then closes it, and strokes his chin*
i cant tell if this response was cause its a good question or cause its an obvious question and you are being sarcastic...lol its so hard to tell on this board...

but yeah, i mean he knew that bree wasnt his child..he actually accepted a random baby and raised her, he must have known why he was doing that...so how why and when did he change his mind?

Shit, sorry, I was trying to convey that I was at a loss for words b/c I never thought of that before.

Maybe he was giving her the real injections for a bit, and then realized how bad the ceremony was and tried to reverse the effects?

Maybe he was unfortunatley forced to give her the Orders shots, and then tried to cancel them out?

Goddamnit, all I did was break the big question into a thousand smaller ones.

We can only know if we talk to someone who was helping Bree's dad, or ask the decaying corpse that is probably sitting on the ocean floor, clad in concrete shoes.

He could not have been alone on this; Epogen sounds expensive, and even though it may not really be the most expensive drug, he did have boxes and boxes of it. He did not live in a lean-to, but his house was sure as hell not a mansion. Plus, he would have needed to trick companies that he was using the Epogen for medical uses or studies or perhaps sales, not "Uhhh, the Order wants my daughter. Can I have some Epogen?" Epo is perscribed, completely behind the counter.

Here are some random theories of mine:

1. Mr. Bree had a friend in the medical field, and was getting it from them.

2. Mr. Bree helped make up the Order's mind to give Bree to him, so he could screw them over. Possibilities why:

1. And the most likely, Mr. Bree was part of the Resistance.

2. He just really hates the Order, maybe they killed his family or something, and wormed his way in to get personal revenge. (ehhh... kinda weak)

3. The Order is doing a crazy experiment b/c they are part of/ backed by some drug company. Mr. Bree is from another company, and he is there to make sure the whole thing falls threw.
(No way in hell, but what the hell, I'm bored)

hella · Post by **hella** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:54 pm

wait how do we know epogen was good? maybe the epogen shots were from the order

Aponi · Post by **Aponi** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:55 pm

Bree's dad actually worked for the company the the Epogen came from.
We know because Bree points out that the leminscate(sp?)/epogen symbol was the logo of the company her dad worked for.
I'm thinking that it was a medical company, because you see Bree's dad wearing a lab coat (actually carrying a lab coat), it is mentioned he worked with ribozymes, and he was the one giving shots (which I don't think he'd do unless he knew how, because it can potentially kill someone if certian injections are given the wrong way).
The company was also probably heavily populated by Orderiets. And i'm thinking that's how he got the Epogen. Or else he ordered some for a fake medical thing.
But if that's what he was using to turn Bree trait negative then I don't think he got it from the Order. It's probably way more likely that he somehow got it because he's a doctor.

hella · Post by **hella** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:59 pm

i dont remember which video they said brees dad was trying to make her trait negative in

Aponi · Post by **Aponi** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:09 pm

hella wrote:i dont remember which video they said brees dad was trying to make her trait negative in

"Opening the Box"
It's where they open the box from the Camp Play area, it's all about how Bree's dad was trying to make her trait negative.

TOSG · Post by **TOSG** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:21 pm

Science-wise, I have no idea what epogen has to do with affecting ribozyme levels. My guess would be nothing, but I'm not sure how hard-and-fast they're playing by "real life" scientific rules. I know that Miles probably has the background for it, though.

Samara · Post by **Samara** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:39 pm

Well, I'm still convinced that the HoO gave a couple HUGE clues when they held that auditions, especially that question about reversing the aging process.

I know that I read something, somewhere about how anemia is rampant among the elderly. Now whether that is a result of old age or the cause of accelerated aging, I can't remember...but I distinctly recall there being some sort of link there.

If anyone has access to an article called The Quest for Immortality: Science at the Frontiers of Aging it might be worth perusing in case it applies somehow.

Aponi · Post by **Aponi** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:41 am

Ok, thanks to LG15 Today and Meepers Anonymous (who i'm pretty sure only resides on the comment board, but i'd love to thank her anyway

) I have a pretty handy little summarization of ribozymes, how it's relevant to LG, and how to possibly 'cure' Bree.

For me it kinds knits everything toghether, all the protiens and stuff, but again, it looks like we need the notebook (or it's information summarized) to figure too much else out.

The link for the article is here: http://lg15today.blogspot.com/2007/06/rna-revision.html