On the Jumping of Sharks--What LG15 is Doing Wrong

[DreamerM]

That is it. That is it. I've had it.

We finally get a new video and it's more of the same drivel. The character's sitution is getting more and more desperate, yet they refuse to actually develop the characteristics to deal with it.

"I talk to my animals, it's the only thing that keeps me happy."

Guess what Bree? YOU SHOULDN'T BE HAPPY! You should be heartbroken. You should be miserable. Look at you. You're living in a werehouse with hobos. You're eating out of the trash. Your parents are gone. You're being followed by the most inneffectual stalker ever. Your one real companion is ready to up and leave you. You need to stop "being happy" and start DEALING with things.

You are mysteriously clean though. Hair still conditioned, makeup still applied, eyebrows expertly tweezed as ever.

And I don't mean just changing locales again, the problem would just get worse at Jonas's place, as he's just as disconnected as you are.

No, I don't think Jonas is a bad guy, mostly because I don't trust the writers to be clever enough to give us a perky, friendly, seemingly generous and laid-back....villian. It takes actual brainpower to think up nd convincingly dress a wolf in sheep's clothing, and I haven't seen any brainpower in this writing for almost a month.

Hate this hate this hate this

[Lurker]

Lurker, I hate to reply with so little to a long post you obviously put so much thought into, but....

That was very well said.

Thank you, Eli. Glad you liked it.

Yeah...

Hey Lurker, you trying to show me up on my own thread? Come over here and say that to my face!

Bring it.

However I disagree with you about the speed with which the story happens. I am not a patient person and, if anything, the faster medium of the internet encourages faster everything.

That's essentially the point I was trying to make with how everything is a product of its time. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough. This situation being what it is will require either faster delivery of new videos, or more content to explore between videos -- content that doesn't necessarily have as narrow an audience appeal as things like figuring out puzzles with obscure clues.

I don't mean every moment should be action packed. I mean the storyteller always has to be doing SOMETHING. If they are not advancing plot, they are building character. If they arn't doing that. they are setting up something, or foreshadowing something else. There always needs to be direction, they have to be going somewhere.

I definitely agree with all of that. Even putting aside observation of how much entertaining content is available at any time, good storytelling should always be strived for.

The project has grown ultra successful if you measure that by eyeballs, media exposure, fandom, and other metrics associated with traditional media. What has eluded them so far is the financial rewards that even the trashiest of daytime soaps or horrid reality shows generate.

The result is the disaster of a plot, pacing, etc. that is nothing but a way to stall the production until they can figure out a way to make money. They started this as a way to break into the film industry, or so THEY claimed in interviews post-outing. Since then, they have become greedy in the hopes that they can capitalize on all the usual measures of success.

I am about as pro-capitalist as any, and have no problem with anyone making dinero. But it is so obvious that the financial aspects are driving the production at this point that it has just become silly.

That's certainly possible, but you can hardly blame them. Given all the exposure this thing has gotten, it's only natural to expect some revenue to come in at some point. It's a shame, though, that it may be coming at the expense of quality. Rather ironic that.

We finally get a new video and it's more of the same drivel. The character's sitution is getting more and more desperate, yet they refuse to actually develop the characteristics to deal with it.

"I talk to my animals, it's the only thing that keeps me happy."

Guess what Bree? YOU SHOULDN'T BE HAPPY! You should be heartbroken. You should be miserable. Look at you. You're living in a werehouse with hobos. You're eating out of the trash. Your parents are gone. You're being followed by the most inneffectual stalker ever. Your one real companion is ready to up and leave you. You need to stop "being happy" and start DEALING with things.

You know, I think we might be starting to see some development. Bree is beginning to act a little more mature. And she explained why she's been carrying on as she has. If we get her explaining it this vid, maybe we'll have her getting beyond it in the next one. Maybe.

You are mysteriously clean though. Hair still conditioned, makeup still applied, eyebrows expertly tweezed as ever.

In the new vid's dedicated thread, a forum member who said he/she's been homeless in the past theirself said that even homeless you find ways to stay clean. Having never been there myself, I can't say one way or the other, but I imagine McDonald's wouldn't stop you from going in to use their faucet once in a while.

No, I don't think Jonas is a bad guy, mostly because I don't trust the writers to be clever enough to give us a perky, friendly, seemingly generous and laid-back....villian. It takes actual brainpower to think up nd convincingly dress a wolf in sheep's clothing, and I haven't seen any brainpower in this writing for almost a month.

That's a major "ouch," but I've still got faith. I think Jonas is exactly that: a perky, friendly, seemingly generous and laid-back villain.

[EliCash]

So I was thinking about some of the stuff we talked about in this thread dealing with the Bree character growing. Oddly enough, I'm going to cite Seinfeld, even though I once said that it's what this series should not be: a show about "nothing."

There's an episode where Jerry meets this girl who is just like him and he falls in love with her. In fact, she's more "Jerry" than he is. The female version of Jerry sweeps him off his feet and they get engaged.

Eventually, it's too much for him. All of his exaggerated features that she displays completely turns him away. They break up.

That's what I'm reminded of when I think of Bree going to Jonas and, predictably, being happy together. Numerous posters have pointed out that he is the "female" version of Bree. My guess is that he's even MORE Bree than Bree. Eventually, she's going to want to get serious. Jonas, I would guess, won't. He'll be too busy with his little skateboard or doing flips in the back yard.

If he is, essentially, Bree^2, then maybe that could eventually turn Bree away and allow her to grow. Maybe that will allow her to give up talking to stuffed animals in order to avoid her problems.

Maybe that's a way she can be forced into taking action. Obviously, that would take a lot of time.

But it should.

-----

Anyway, I prefer to talk about backstory, rather than trying to figure out ways the Creators can dig themselves out of a hole. I plan on going back to that. I just figured I'd share those thoughts.

I'm not even suggesting this. My point is only that there are multiple ways that Bree can go about making a change in her life, and we shouldn't expect it right away.

[mandimoron]

Tremendous. Dreamer, you've said almost everything I could have possibly thought to say in a much more articulate manner than I have the strength for in an internet forum.

I gotta say, my patience level has been breached. I... I just don't care anymore. The plot is at once too far-fetched to be related to, and so common place as to make it unforgivably dull. It's actually kind of a chore to sit through these videos now, seeing as how they've been stuck on lather-rinse-repeat mode for what seems like ages (which wouldn't be bad if there was, you know, content). I got rid of my subscriptions for LG15 et al-- that's not to say I refuse to watch anymore, but I'm certainly nowhere near as committed a viewer as I once was.

I really want to know something, though: What in the hell does Daniel see in Bree? Why are they even friends? Is there anything behind the eyebrows at all? If there is, I really think it needs to be seen. As has been said, cutesy and quirky has its place, but it really shouldn't be now. I'm not saying Bree needs to pull a 180 on her character and turn into a heavily introspective, self-lamenting emo brat, but there really should be something more going on in the mind of someone in her situation than... well... what the hell is going on in her mind, anyway? Anything? I sure as hell don't know, and that's probably a large part of the reason why I just can't make myself care about her anymore.

[DreamerM]

I can only justify Bree's behavior in two ways:

1) She is HEAVILY in denial. So far in she doesn't know what's real and what's not anymore, thus her talking to her imaginary friends more and more.

She is an airhead escapist moron whose cowardace runs unbelievably deep.

2) She is sitting on some sort of trump-card. It's something she can't tell Daniel about so she pretends to be upset so he won't suspect, when she's really just fine, because she knows she has something up her sleave.

Shes an evil genius.

[curiousGeorge]

ZOMG! This actually appears to be one of the more thoughtful and well written threads ever produced at the phorum. Things are on the improve at the mothersip. A few observations:

The Catch-22? Those possessing critical thinking abilities compose well-written posts. This is not to say that there is no other intelligent discussion on this board, but I challenge you to find another thread with this consistent level of such.

The current state of affairs probably will only retain the interest of the teenyboppers if this level of quality is maintained. Perhaps that IS the target demographic for your future potential revenue, but you will probably lose those with a higher income level if you keep this up.

Thanks for staying out of this thread Amanda, creators, and the rest of the production team. I think you should really be paying attention to these folks. Their points are excellent and you are getting the equivalent of unpaid consulting advice. Bravo for not jumping in!

Lastly, thanks to TWJ (current Bukanator) for not censoring or locking the threads. I see that Spaciegirl’s rants are locked; it is unfortunate that you lost one of the more entertaining and ardent posters.

I remain ever hopeful that the creators can turn this around and return to a level of quality that attracted (hooked!) me initially.

[Broken Kid]

Lastly, thanks to TWJ (current Bukanator) for not censoring or locking the threads. I see that Spaciegirl’s rants are locked; it is unfortunate that you lost one of the more entertaining and ardent posters.

Spacie left of her own accord. The thread was locked after she stopped posting. It's still there to be read if so desired.

[curiousGeorge]

Spacie left of her own accord. The thread was locked after she stopped posting. It's still there to be read if so desired.

Thanks for clarifying that.

Back on topic to plot issues:

I think the most egregious of the dangling plot issues was the reference in Pluto to Bree having had some sort of untoward relationship with her Science teacher. Yes, I realize that it was only stated as gossip among her classmates, but to what end did this serve to further the narrative?

At best it is one of many unresolved plot issues. At worst, grossly sensational to even imply something like this. I suppose one could argue that it was just written in to reinforce Bree and her parents rationale for leaving school and returning to Homeschooling. But surely something like this could have been done less heavy handed. They then faded out to black after she stated this, reinforcing the dramatic nature.

Never. Mentioned. Again.

I suppose we will at some point see a reference to the much discussed Cassie (of Skeeter Hunting 2.0 fame) to satisfy the great unwashed. (I count myself among this group, monkeys are not big on hygiene) Perhaps they will pull this out for a "sweeps" style storyline if significant page views decline occurs.

There are WAY too many of these types of plot holes to list, I just happened to mention a couple of my pet peeves. I realize that they are in it for the long haul, but they really need to clear up some of the plot holes before proceeding with a whole NEW set of them.

[DreamerM]

I agree with you Curiousgeorge, and I'd like to add that while all these old, unresolved potential plot points dangle like threads, just waiting to be woven into something cohesive, they instead keep shoehorning new characters into the story in a rather pathetic attempt to keep the action rolling.

First rule of storytelling: Kill your darlings. Trim the fat. If something doesn't do two or three useful things, then it doesn't go in the story. Period.

I have already gone over the massive level on which this show drops the ball when it comes to introducing new characters. I am now going to wax poetic on how royaly pointless those characters themselves have turned out to be.

Gemma does not need to exist. She gets no development, (sorry writers, no, whining about cookies and thai food and life in London does NOT count as development), her videos, with the quick editing, ect. are EXACTLY like Brees so so much for the opertunity to freshen things up with a different style. The one purpose she serves is to act like a mouthpeice and pass to the characters the information WE here on the FORUMS dig up. She supposedly grew up within the same community Bree did, but she has to steal her info from us. You know what? I liked it more when people at least PRETENDED the characters read these forums and interacted with thier fans. Ah, Daniel hovering obtusely over a computer screen, thanking "someone from the forums" (would it hurt to say the screen name? I mean REALLY hurt?) for digging up a vital clue. Glory days.

She was a bad call and youd think the less-then-warm welcome she recieved would deter those creators from making the same mistake twice. Nope. I guess the Creators were just sitting on so much extra money that they just HAD to hire another actor, director and writing team for a new character.

It bears repeating: SET UP YOUR NEW CHARACTERS BEFORE YOU INTRODUCE THEM! Just look at the furrer over Cassie. THAT is character build up. You DO know how to do this, creators. Why you haven't is beyond me.

Unless of corse you figure you'll introduce a new character now, and only set them up later. Never a good plan. Know what purpose a character serves BEFORE you drop them on an unsuspecting public.

Figure out where your story is going. Trim the fat. Delete stuff. start ADDRESSING the ISSUES. You're hiding from your own plot under all these red harrings. Something has got to give.

[treefunk]

You know, I think we might be starting to see some development. Bree is beginning to act a little more mature. And she explained why she's been carrying on as she has. If we get her explaining it this vid, maybe we'll have her getting beyond it in the next one. Maybe.

Maybe, but what came out in the latest video seemed more like a weak attempt to address fan criticism. The principle guideline for addressing fan criticism =

Show Don't Tell!

Instead of Bree journalistically reporting to the camera that the reason for her stuffed animal obsession is escapism from pain, have her act like a real vblogger! Bree should post a 10 minute rambling hysterical monologue where she breaks down in front of camera and spills her guts. (I'd shoot it at an extreme close up, btw). This would be gripping and I think that Miss Rose has the talent to pull it off, given some thoughtful writing. And it would be entirely plot-consistent, given that her parents have been kidnapped by a cult, she's fighting with the only friend she has, she's eating out of a dumpster. These are the reasons why there are complaints about lack of plot and character development--the established, routine, brief format of the videos can't capture what is going on in Bree's world.

The vlog/shlog angle should leave this project wide open for experimentation and change in the format of the videos. The Creators were on the right track when they posted the Daniel's "action" videos on the ceremony and breaking into Lucy's house. Too many of the videos follow the same, now routine, format and that's boring and uncreative.

I'd like to mention, btw, that I'm quite optimistic that the Creators can pull this off

[oleandereyes]

I agree, as a viewer I'm getting bored with the plot...I don't like Jonas, he's not a very good actor, and he doesn't flow with the storyline. Gemma is okay with me, while still a little pointless at least she ties in with Bree's past. Bree is getting kind of annoying with the cute stuff, and I think Daniel needs to talk more instead of just standing around in the background. Someone has to take some kind of initiative and DO something...I want more information, as I'm sure many viewers do.. Sure, it's real-time, but it's also a fictional STORY, which means it needs an interesting storyline to make sure people keep coming back to watch.. right now all the characters are doing is running around outside, saying the same things over and over. I was hoping that Cassie would be referenced again as her background is majorly set up in Bree's past.... I just hope the creators pull it together soon and aren't getting some kind of ego trip from the having millions of viewers thing.

[curiousGeorge]

Before anyone steps in and attempts to invoke a "Lost" or "X-Files" analogy to justify the plot problems:

Both of these major media works periodically took (take) time out to resolve large chunks of the mythology of the shows. Sometimes to good effect, other times it came across as kinda heavy handed. At least they did it though!

And that old tired "this is a new medium, blah, blah, blah" drivel. It it STILL about telling a story! You can involve all the cool (and some of it really is) fan related elements, but you still need to tell a story.

One more time. Take a few days off, review all the old scripts and vids, get input from the fine (main) cast members, and just start resolving some of this stuff. At least make an attempt to make it cohesive, not just to address fans complaining about Bree's mood du jour!

Address the plot! Address the characters! They are your Creation, treat them with the love and attention they deserve...

[milowent]

DreamerM, i find myself in agreement with most everything you have said, especially in the thread opener. [Applause]

I first got sucked into lg15 for two reasons: (1) I wanted to know who was behind it, and (2) The Aleister Crowley revelation. Putting a seemingly sinister religion into this normal homeschooled-teenager's life intrigued me. But the plot has been plodding along for awhile now without any real excitement. You articulated the problems very well.

Lg15 does seem to be losing some of its audience, and that is most likely explained by the failing plot problem. The LG15 ARG-related spinoffs never have appealed to the larger LG15 audience, as their youtube page views attest. Even the unofficial cassie that used to be the subject of 67% of all posts all-time here at the forums, was never very popular on youtube: 63K views for her first vid, only 25K for the last one. A typical Opaphid vid gets less than 30-40,000 views at youtube. (The Adventures in Babysitting one that came out when OpAphid was made the Official ARG is in the 90s, and is the only exception.)

And Gogo, I love the "Rancor Cove" appellation. The frustration which DreamerM has enunciated so well here is lurking everywhere there.

[agent_fondue]

Dreamer, I encourage many many more lengthy and detailed posts. You are saying everything I am thinking, but you have a much better vocabulary and you make me laugh.

[SharpI]

I guess the Creators were just sitting on so much extra money that they just HAD to hire another actor, director and writing team for a new character.

I'm not sure that the Gemma team and the Jonas team are "hired" by the Creators. I got the impression that they make a few videos as a tryout, and if it's clicking, the Creators canonize them. I think Gemma's and Jonas's "pay" is their Revver income (which isn't much), and they function semi-autonomously.

That's no excuse for making sucky videos, of course. But I think the Gemma and Jonas videos are measurably better; the various teams may be learning how to work this new system. Bottom line: I liked having someone to to look at between B/D videos, and perspectives different than B/D's. The shlog gets claustrophobic at times for me.