Illuminati - A (not so brief) history

[silvermoon]

Here's another one I found. Now I really, really, really have to go buy food!

[storyteller]

If anyone has done any research on any of these before, please feel free to point me to it!

Storyteller, do not believe everything you read in this thread. It's mainly doing research on crazy stuff and connecting elements that are not connected to create at the end the sense of a whole super conspiracy with the Illuminati at the center of this mega-plan to rule the world. It's all fictional. But you are welcome to play along. Trainer has been really efficient creating this theory with all the elements he brought in there....

MMM- yeah- mostly I'm just bored at work, so I'm not really worried about finding the deep LG15 secrets...

[trainer101]

Love your avatar!

[Kasdeja]

Love your avatar!

Thought you'd like that.

[trainer101]

Bree responds to a question about the Illuminati.
http://www.lonelygirl15.com/forum/viewt ... ght=#77453

[trainer101]

Bree's slightly cryptic answer regarding the Watcher symbol on her back.
http://www.lonelygirl15.com/forum/viewt ... ght=#77444

[trainer101]

Illuminati
O.T.O.
Thelema
Crowley
Deacons
Longitude
Horoscope
Camp
Secret Societies
etc., etc., etc....
http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/O ... i_Orientis

[Lord Balto]

I just dug out Charles Heckethorn's The Secret Societies of all Ages and Countries. As usual, Heckethorn has material to be found nowhere else, including the actual rituals of initiation of the Austrian and French Illuminati.

Just a few items:

There is an Illuminati alphabet--actually two--so why would there be any use of Egyptian hieroglyphs? The higher orders communicated in these alphabets. The lower orders used a simple numerical cypher, rather like a cryptogram.

There were 13 degrees in the Illuminati, organized into three classes. The middle class used terminology related to Scottish Rite Masonry:

The class of "Masonry" was divided into "Symbolic" and "Scotch" degrees, the former further divided into Apprentice, Fellow Craft, and Master Mason; the latter into Illuminatus Major (or Scotch Novice), and Illuminatus Derigens (or Scotch Knight).

From the French initiation:

"From this moment thou shalt reveal to thy new chief all thou shalt have heard, learned, and discovered, and also to seek after and spy into things that might otherwise escape thy notice."

There is also a lengthy excerpt from the papers of Baron Bassus in which he suggests that the Illuminati should attempt to gain power over women by offering them various incentives including what would be termed today "liberation" and also the setting up of a "Minerval school" for their indoctrination.

[trainer101]

I just dug out Charles Heckethorn's The Secret Societies of all Ages and Countries. As usual, Heckethorn has material to be found nowhere else, including the actual rituals of initiation of the Austrian and French Illuminati.

Just a few items:

There is an Illuminati alphabet--actually two--so why would there be any use of Egyptian hieroglyphs? The higher orders communicated in these alphabets. The lower orders used a simple numerical cypher, rather like a cryptogram.

Gemma references learning Egyptian but Bree was learning Enochian. We still don't know for sure that the eye is a hieroglyph though likely it is a representation of the "All seeing Eye" and/or the "Eye of Horus" (sometimes used interchangebly). Tied to the Illuminati through innuendo and pop-culture (as illustrated in my avatar). Numerical cyphers are popular with OpAphid (coded Hex to Text translations).

There were 13 degrees in the Illuminati, organized into three classes. The middle class used terminology related to Scottish Rite Masonry:

Pop culturists (and conspiracy theorists) now refer to these degrees as the "13 Bloodlines" of the Illuminati as they are used to reference various 20th century 'elite class' families.

The class of "Masonry" was divided into "Symbolic" and "Scotch" degrees, the former further divided into Apprentice, Fellow Craft, and Master Mason; the latter into Illuminatus Major (or Scotch Novice), and Illuminatus Derigens (or Scotch Knight).

Now referenced as:
•The Guardians of the Seed of Creation
•The Teachers and Healers
•The Protectors of the Bloodline
•The Record Keepers
•The Watchers
•The Conspirators
(Another pop-culture reference)

From the French initiation:

"From this moment thou shalt reveal to thy new chief all thou shalt have heard, learned, and discovered, and also to seek after and spy into things that might otherwise escape thy notice."

There is also a lengthy excerpt from the papers of Baron Bassus in which he suggests that the Illuminati should attempt to gain power over women by offering them various incentives including what would be termed today "liberation" and also the setting up of a "Minerval school" for their indoctrination.

Here is an excerpt from the correspondence between "Minos" and "Sebastian" (historical Illuminati code names) referencing the use of "mock ceremonies", deception and the fear that it will be the female element that turns "the Order" upside down.

"We must always be at hand to prevent the introduction of any improper question. We must prepare themes for their discussion--thus we shall confess them, and inspire them with our sentiments. No man however must come near them. This will fire their roving fancies and we may expect rare mysteries. But I am doubtful whether this Association will be durable. Women are fickle and impatient. Nothing will please them but hurrying from degree to degree, through a heap of insignificant ceremonies, which will soon lose their novelty and influence. To rest seriously in one rank, and to be still and silent when they have found out that the whole is a cheat (hear the words of an experienced Mason) is a task of which they are incapable. They have not our motives to perservere for years, allowing themselves to be led about, and even then to hold their tongues when they find out that they have been deceived. Nay there is a risk that they may take into their heads to give things an
opposite turn, and then, by voluptuous allurements, heightened by affected modesty and decency, which give them an irresistable empire over the best men, they may turn our Order upside down, and in their turn will lead the new one." http://www.freedomdomain.com/map/illumi ... mbers.html
Sounds amazingly like our plotline.

[Lord Balto]

I won't try to deal with your post line by line. You obviously know the subject inside and out. Just a few points:

I forgot about the Enochian reference, but still, that's a long way from the Illuminati alphabet, which was simply a way of transmitting real-world languages in secret.

As for the symbol, the most obvious explanation is that it results from a merging of the hieroglyph for "to see" (an eye) and the one indicating the plural (3 vertical lines), that is, "Seers," or "Watchers." It certainly bears little similarity to the Eye of Horus, unless you insist on seeing all eyes as those of Horus. The question, of course, is why would it appear on the lid of a box? Did that box contain an eye of some sort? Keep in mind that there's a long history of gods in boxes. The Greeks captured an image of Bacchus in a box at Troy; The Hebrews carried a box that contained Yahweh, and even Noah is said in some traditions to have been born in the ark, which was nothing more than a large box. We could add to this the boat in which Moses was found and even the manger at Bethlehem.

As for cyphers, they are such a common plot element as to amount to nothing.

I have no idea how 13 grades of initiation could be confounded with 13 bloodlines that, presumably, have no hierarchical significance, though I must admit that the 10 antediluvian Patriarchs show up in some traditions as 10 brothers or sisters. I quoted this part because it indicated that the Scottish Rite was part of the first two, exoteric, classes that were contradicted and overthrown in the final class. I failed to completely explain this properly.

A quick search of the web indicates that the watchers are certainly an element of modern Illuminati lore, and the writers could have glommed onto this, but I don't see where it has any historical validity, but again, as you have pointed out, this is a fictional account. You may be on to something here.

Sounds amazingly like our plotline.

Well, only to the extent that Bree obviously hasn't penetrated the inner sanctum of the religion. Whether she's being used in the sense mentioned in the 18th Century correspondence is certainly possible, but why? To get to Daniel? Do you really think Bree is trying to take over the organization or found a new one? This, the same Bree who's stuffed animal was "tortured"? Am I missing something here?

[trainer101]

I was simply pointing out how pop-culture has co-opted many historical facts and remade the Illuminati into their own image.

I think we have to separate the historical references from the pop-culture/fictional references to really understand their place in the story. Clearly, this story is not drawing from any actual historical evidence (why would they, the fictional accounts of the Illuminati are so much more fun for this type of story).

For the most part, the Creators create the story then we try to tie the pieces together. I'm not sure they delved THAT deeply into the traditions of Secret Societies and/or Global Conspiracies.

While the threads that tie this to the fictional Illuminati are strong, the ties to any historical organization are very loose, to say the least. We CREATE the Illuminati from our own perspective. We become part of the story arc.

With regard to the correspondence, my point was that it's the young ladies - Bree, Tachyon (and perhaps Gemma) that seem to be the most difficult for the Order to handle. They may very well be the rogue element that brings down the Order - intentionally, or not.

[Lord Balto]

Agreed, it's all fictional and not historical. But how exactly are they going to bring down the Order? By posting on YouTube? Now Gemma thinks she's being followed. They wouldn't even have been interested in her if she hadn't posted. If this fictional Order is anywhere nearly as powerful as it is supposed to be, what's a little posting that doesn't even mention their name going to do?

[watchingall]

I won't try to deal with your post line by line. You obviously know the subject inside and out. Just a few points:

I forgot about the Enochian reference, but still, that's a long way from the Illuminati alphabet, which was simply a way of transmitting real-world languages in secret.

As for the symbol, the most obvious explanation is that it results from a merging of the hieroglyph for "to see" (an eye) and the one indicating the plural (3 vertical lines), that is, "Seers," or "Watchers." It certainly bears little similarity to the Eye of Horus, unless you insist on seeing all eyes as those of Horus. The question, of course, is why would it appear on the lid of a box? Did that box contain an eye of some sort? Keep in mind that there's a long history of gods in boxes. The Greeks captured an image of Bacchus in a box at Troy; The Hebrews carried a box that contained Yahweh, and even Noah is said in some traditions to have been born in the ark, which was nothing more than a large box. We could add to this the boat in which Moses was found and even the manger at Bethlehem.

As for cyphers, they are such a common plot element as to amount to nothing.

I have no idea how 13 grades of initiation could be confounded with 13 bloodlines that, presumably, have no hierarchical significance, though I must admit that the 10 antediluvian Patriarchs show up in some traditions as 10 brothers or sisters. I quoted this part because it indicated that the Scottish Rite was part of the first two, exoteric, classes that were contradicted and overthrown in the final class. I failed to completely explain this properly.

A quick search of the web indicates that the watchers are certainly an element of modern Illuminati lore, and the writers could have glommed onto this, but I don't see where it has any historical validity, but again, as you have pointed out, this is a fictional account. You may be on to something here.

Sounds amazingly like our plotline.

Well, only to the extent that Bree obviously hasn't penetrated the inner sanctum of the religion. Whether she's being used in the sense mentioned in the 18th Century correspondence is certainly possible, but why? To get to Daniel? Do you really think Bree is trying to take over the organization or found a new one? This, the same Bree who's stuffed animal was "tortured"? Am I missing something here?

There are some connections between illuminati and enochian

"The Illuminati operating within the Watchtower Society use the Enochian Language which has its own language and its own Enochian alphabet (letters in boxes). According to eyewitnesses who have left the J.W. part of the Illuminati, the Enochian alphabet is known and used as the cult language by those Illuminati operating in the high levels of the Watchtower Society. In other words, their ceremonies are done in this ritual Enochian language. "
At The Russel Bloodline http://www.thewatcherfiles.com/bloodlines/russell.htm

"Within the Jehovah’s Witnesses, especially their headquarters, the Illuminati uses Enochian language to program with. "
http://www.whale.to/b/sp/4.html

(this is fascinating to me because of the theories of Bree being hypnotized or a slave etc)

Your box paragraph was interesting, i had never thought about that!

Glad to see you found your way here

[Lord Balto]

Watchingall wrote:

There are some connections between illuminati and enochian

"The Illuminati operating within the Watchtower Society use the Enochian Language which has its own language and its own Enochian alphabet (letters in boxes). According to eyewitnesses who have left the J.W. part of the Illuminati, the Enochian alphabet is known and used as the cult language by those Illuminati operating in the high levels of the Watchtower Society. In other words, their ceremonies are done in this ritual Enochian language. "
At The Russel Bloodline http://www.thewatcherfiles.com/bloodlines/russell.htm

"Within the Jehovah’s Witnesses, especially their headquarters, the Illuminati uses Enochian language to program with. "
http://www.whale.to/b/sp/4.html

(this is fascinating to me because of the theories of Bree being hypnotized or a slave etc)

Your box paragraph was interesting, i had never thought about that!

Glad to see you found your way here Smile

I'm not surprised that the Illuminati alphabet would be replaced by the Enochian alphabet, which is much better known. I'm not sure I buy the Jehovah's Witnesses-Illuminati connection, but I know very little about the organization. The one JW I ever talked to about religion didn't know there was more than one "Pharaoh." He also had some funny idea that JC was crucified on a tree. He certainly didn't seem to be a Satan worshipper. Again, the Egyptian references in the plot would indicate to me a masonic-Crowleyite connection, as does the term "order" (as in Order of the Golden Dawn), as well as the picture of Crowley himself. Bree never calls it a cult but Daniel obviously thinks it is. The Egyptian references also point toward masonic/Thelemite connections. As I have already suggested, the masons and all manner of, especially British, secret societies claim Egyptian origins, as the Roman Mithraics claimed Persian origin. It's an old game.

As for hypnosis, there is quite an extensive literature on its use to brainwash people. Long John Nebel, he of the long-running WOR all night radio show that predated all the modern shows on the strange and bizarre, wrote a book about his wife Candy Jones, who had been hypnotized by the CIA to perform certain acts and then had all memories removed: http://www.mysteriouspeople.com/Candy_Jones.htm
This sort of thing certainly goes on, but I would caution against trying to read too much into what is still a fictional account. It all comes down to what the writers want us to believe rather than what is "true" in some abstract sense, if they have even thought this all through to the point where they even know what they want us to believe.

The box paragraph arose from a fairly extensive alignment of Hebrew, Egyptian, and Assyrian chronologies ( http://neros.lordbalto.com/Contents.htm ) I've been working on, when I finally got it through my thick head that Noah (Menes) and Yahweh (Zeus) filled the same position in the antediluvian kinglists. The box represents the sky, the animals in the ark and around the manger being the signs of the zodiac. The chessboard arose from this system, as did the tarot. The Zodiac of Denderah fits somewhere here too, though I'm not sure where.

Thanks.

[Nieriel.Manwathiel]

Hope I'm editing this right...

Watchingall wrote:
I'm not surprised that the Illuminati alphabet would be replaced by the Enochian alphabet, which is much better known. I'm not sure I buy the Jehovah's Witnesses-Illuminati connection, but I know very little about the organization. The one JW I ever talked to about religion didn't know there was more than one "Pharaoh."

But every religion has their nuts. Not to knock on JWs, but I've heard of JW cults that, like any mean cult, abuse their members. So if there are groups that are f-ed up enough to abuse their own members, what about mixing in magic, sorta gnostic-like?


just saying just cause it's unusual doesn't mean it should be discounted as good plot info.