Response to "Forum Rule Update: moderators actions"

[Samara]

"visibility of the complaint process"

Visibility is vital to the integrity of any feedback mechanism. If i had not accidentally found a post in the trash bin I would have been totally unaware of the new policy.

With integrity being really important. By hiding the process, you foster a natural distrust...whether you intend to or not...and it just comes off as not being on the up and up.

[Renegade]

Oh, how I'd love to complain about the fact that this thread doesn't get locked while mine was killed.

Alas, I'm not allowed to




All hail moderative arbitrariness!

[Killthesmiley]

Here is my problem with the whole situation:

This whole situation stems from a problem of certain moderators not being to admit to wrong doings. It happened, we all know it did, but no one can fess up to it. I don't know why, because really there is no such thing as pride on the Internet.
All of a sudden, after people point all this faults out, we have this rule. It's not surprising, but it's concerning.

The whole situation reaks of "We screwed up, we know it, but we don't want to hear you anymore, so...pm trainer. Not me." I know it reaks of that, because I know the way some of these people think, because I used to be close to them until I started pointing out faults in private and started stating "fix it or the back lash will be big." Low and behold ....

My bigger problem is the fact where this is coming from:

It's coming from a huge argument about net-ego's getting in the way. And unfortunately this whole rule proves our point. It's not that people were "bashing" moderators, we were just trying to point out the rule breakers, and we wanted some consequences. But all we got in return was a silly remark of gratitude towards the rule breakers and a stupid reason why they were still allowed to do what they do.

"Moderators are choosen for loyalty"

B.S.

Whats unfortunate about this rule IS the fact that it quiets public debate. It becomes this complete and utter sour taste in everyones mouth. People have been complaining about certain moderators and their rule breaking for months to not on BK, but to the creators. And no one wants to deal with it anymore. This is where it comes from, and what do I want to say about it:

IF YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT ANY MORE, THEN MAYBE YOU SHOULD WALK AWAY.

[Killthesmiley]

PS: is anyone wants to read renegades post visit my blog
http://lifeandlovekts.blogspot.com/2007 ... -fast.html

[wintermute]

I'd just like to say that I'm appalled at this new policy. Looks like I picked the wrong time to come back

'mute

[TOSG]

I don't think it's fair to call any singular person out with a thread in public, moderator or otherwise. The rule has always been if you have a problem with someone, speak to them directly.

That's reasonable, although I'm not sure that I agree. But this wasn't even really happening. Aside from Apo's call to remove HyeMew (and others' subsequent support), this hadn't really happened (to my knowledge) on any sort of noticable scale. Most of the recent discussion was focused on moderator policy in general, which I think is ridiculous to censor.

It's also common history / behavior that everytime we hit a trough in the plotline or there's a video drought, certain issues seem to come to the surface that weren't so credible and worthwhile in pursuing in the past. That may seem like the ignorant answer, but it's true: we get bored. And when we're bored, we find some way to fancy ourselves.

That seems a little dismissive - "People are just complaining because they have nothing better to do."

As for the Moderator Guidelines, I believe those are to remain between the moderators, admin, and Creators. I don't know what I can tell you there.

So, there are secret rules, and if we think that one of them may have been broken, we have to keep it a secret? That sounds like something out of Catch 22.

(Sorry if it looks like I'm attacking you or picking apart your post - I'm not. It was a good, well thought out post, I just had to respond to those points).[/i]

[Renegade]

While I consider my posts on public forums expressedly not secret (quite the opposite), and therefore have no problem with them being quoted as a whole or verbatim elsewhere, I would like to point out that I have no connection to my post going up on KTS's blog. That was an independent decision by her.

This is not important because I'm afraid of administrative repercussions or want to distance myself from what I wrote, but because it's important to note that this is an independent string of complaints, not linked to my original post - iow:
The fact that other people created a similar thread, and participants of this new thread unbury the old post shows quite well that this is not my singular opinion, but in fact a concern shared by many posters.

[Killthesmiley]

While I consider my posts on public forums expressedly not secret (quite the opposite), and therefore have no problem with them being quoted as a whole or verbatim elsewhere, I would like to point out that I have no connection to my post going up on KTS's blog. That was an independent decision by her.

This is not important because I'm afraid of administrative repercussions or want to distance myself from what I wrote, but because it's important to note that this is an independent string of complaints, not linked to my original post - iow:
The fact that other people created a similar thread, and participants of this new thread unbury the old post shows quite well that this is not my singular opinion, but in fact a concern shared by many posters.

Yea I was pretty mad last night. I'm rewriting a more clearer, ideal debate blog now.

[Broken Kid]

I understand people’s questions about this policy. There has always been a strong sense of ownership among the forum members, and that’s a good thing. However, this is a policy that should be in place in any large forum, and it’s clearly needed here.

I’ll respond to a few issues:
- Renegade, there is no favoritism here. This thread was left because I was asleep and other moderators did not remove it. The discussion started quite civilly and on a general scale from QtheC.
- Modelmotion, there was an announcement made to highlight this new policy. No one is hiding anything.
- TOSG, moderator guidelines have always been kept private. These were developed by the moderators and the Creators.

There seems to be an impression in this discussion that moderators are trying to hide something or sneak something by the members, but that’s not true. They are simply trying to do their job in the best interests of the forum. Unfortunately, discussions of moderator actions have not been constructive. A moderator cannot do their job if they are constantly worried about fans piling on and calling them out without knowing even a portion of the facts.

In the grand scheme of things, this will not diminish your experience on the forums. There’s still plenty to discuss and plenty of great folks to interact with. In the meantime, we have policies in place in case you have concerns, and these should work quite well.

[Killthesmiley]

there was an announcement made to highlight this new policy. No one is hiding anything.

Announcements are not marked as new posts though, unless someone posts in them. so how would anyone know about this new policy unless MM brought it up in the blog?

[colbertnationgirl]

there was an announcement made to highlight this new policy. No one is hiding anything.

Announcements are not marked as new posts though, unless someone posts in them. so how would anyone know about this new policy unless MM brought it up in the blog?

It showed as new to me.

[Killthesmiley]

there was an announcement made to highlight this new policy. No one is hiding anything.

Announcements are not marked as new posts though, unless someone posts in them. so how would anyone know about this new policy unless MM brought it up in the blog?

It showed as new to me.

very rarely do I see them actually show up as new posts, only when people post inside of them

[wintermute]

Thanks for agreeing, spacie, but perhaps I should explain myself a little more before you agree too wholeheartedly

I understand where the new policy comes from. A certain moderator tends to be a bit old-school and gets misunderstood. One of my first interactions with this person was a misunderstanding. But the misunderstanding was quickly resolved and all was good. However, a vocal group here seems to complain about said moderator on a semi-regular basis. Broken Kid rightly stands behind his moderators. Conversation degrades into flamewars. Threads are locked. People get more upset because their thread was locked. People complain about said locked thread.

The way I see it, IMHO, this new policy is meant to short-circuit that and save us all the flames. I don't think it'll work for a couple of reasons. First, people will ignore the new policy and enforcement will be seen as uneven. Second, people will just find other things to start flamewars over...

What's I find appalling is that many of the conversations have value up until the point that they devolve into flamewars. Plus, there's a chilling effect. If this speech is banned here, what's next?

'mute

[Broken Kid]

I will suggest that we can leave this thread open as long as the conversation can be constructive and productive. This thread started that way, with some very good suggestions and constructive discussion. Posts that are not will be deleted.

[Killthesmiley]

but what constitutes as Constructive to you?
I've seen constructive thread/post be deleted and thrown out.