Should Lurker's discussion style change? Should he leave?

sack36 · Post by **sack36** » Fri May 11, 2007 11:45 pm

God! NO!

Okay, that was for the title of this thread. Now I'll go back and read the thread.

sack36 · Post by **sack36** » Sat May 12, 2007 12:44 am

OK I've read through what the other posters have said, and I lived through the post that prompted this thread. Here is my lengthily debated, seriously thought out and considered opinion:

Hell! No!! -- God's Bodkins!! NO! and I repeat: NO! Don't change. Don't go.

There. I feel better. Don't you?

Now the fine print. There are times you make me so mad I stomp around my apartment, scaring my cats, screaming at you! At times I close down the computer and take a long, hot shower (I have no tub) to get past the clenched teeth stage. Sometimes I even copy your arguments to word, answer them all--with great wit and verve--then trash the file.

You have never heard of any of this til now because I respect your clarity of thought, your near-vulcan logic and your miraculous memory too much to bring it up. I rely on you to be my compass and my tether.

I respect Renegade as well. Both of you give to this forum a tincture of respectability. We can see in the debate (well, yeah, argument) that prompted this thread, two clear sides. We can hear the sincerity in the positions and the fear of evil in both your posts. Believe it or not, Lurker, I am so grateful that the argument took place on a forum that accepts children as young as 13. That thread is a powerful example to them that no issue is so black and white; so clear cut that another side can't be reasonably argued.

Don't anyone flame me for what I say next. I don't want a political flame thread to start. I just want to show how powerful the words of these two beings are for me.

On 9/11 I watched live as those planes plowed into the world trade center. When I gained enough mind to place a thought, the first one that came to me was: What horrible thing have we done to these people that they could feel justified in doing this to us? I watched as the days, months, years passed. Never did I hear that from another soul. But as I read the posts between these two intellects, it kept ringing in my ears. By the power of their thread they showed me the other side. Thank you, Lurker and thank you Renegade.

Now where do I sign up for the Lurker fan club?

Aithne · Post by **Aithne** » Sat May 12, 2007 2:19 am

sack36 wrote:OK I've read through what the other posters have said, and I lived through the post that prompted this thread. Here is my lengthily debated, seriously thought out and considered opinion:

Hell! No!! -- God's Bodkins!! NO! and I repeat: NO! Don't change. Don't go.

There. I feel better. Don't you?

Now the fine print. There are times you make me so mad I stomp around my apartment, scaring my cats, screaming at you! At times I close down the computer and take a long, hot shower (I have no tub) to get past the clenched teeth stage. Sometimes I even copy your arguments to word, answer them all--with great wit and verve--then trash the file.

You have never heard of any of this til now because I respect your clarity of thought, your near-vulcan logic and your miraculous memory too much to bring it up. I rely on you to be my compass and my tether.

I respect Renegade as well. Both of you give to this forum a tincture of respectability. We can see in the debate (well, yeah, argument) that prompted this thread, two clear sides. We can hear the sincerity in the positions and the fear of evil in both your posts. Believe it or not, Lurker, I am so grateful that the argument took place on a forum that accepts children as young as 13. That thread is a powerful example to them that no issue is so black and white; so clear cut that another side can't be reasonably argued.

Don't anyone flame me for what I say next. I don't want a political flame thread to start. I just want to show how powerful the words of these two beings are for me.

On 9/11 I watched live as those planes plowed into the world trade center. When I gained enough mind to place a thought, the first one that came to me was: What horrible thing have we done to these people that they could feel justified in doing this to us? I watched as the days, months, years passed. Never did I hear that from another soul. But as I read the posts between these two intellects, it kept ringing in my ears. By the power of their thread they showed me the other side. Thank you, Lurker and thank you Renegade.

Now where do I sign up for the Lurker fan club?

I was going to cut out all that did not apply to what I am responding to, but then I thought what the hell....it should be read twice anyway.

sign up at LgPedia

Lurker Fan club thread

Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Sat May 12, 2007 3:33 am

I'd like to thank everyone who's responded so far. Your input and candor (whether you had compliments to offer or frustrations) are immensely appreciated.

I'm going to leave this open at least through the weekend, by the way.

Post by **Broken Kid** » Sat May 12, 2007 2:18 pm

So I'll admit here that I don't read every thread anymore. I used to, and it drove me crazy. That's why we have lots of mods.

So I didn't see the back-and-forth discussion between Luminous and Lurker, or I would have stepped in and asked folks to stay on topic: discussion of the video and not discussion of the kidnapping, which is being discussed in a few other places.

I'll say that I have always appreciated Lurker's well-thought-out and detailed discussion. He seems objective and open-minded. And I have yet to hear anyone say that they have ceased posting because of Lurker's posts. Even though I have disagreed with Lurker on occasion, I've always felt he's very openminded and willing to listen to my opinion and carefully think it through, even if he's not convinced.

I agree that Lurker's lengthy posts are a bit overwhelming. I've often skimmed past them if I wasn't into that particular conversation. But when I find the conversation interesting, I invariably find his long posts add to the conversation and help even those who don't agree discuss the points objectively.

In this case, I wouldn't ask Lurker to change his style of posts and certainly not to go away. Neither would I want Luminous to not speak her mind and express her opinion. I understand she felt frustrated by Lurker's support of kidnapping - it is a very controversial issue. My concern about this whole conversation is that neither just walked away, because it's obvious you're not going to convince the other person of anything. And because of that, it got quite personal and frustrated, which is a shame. Sometimes, you just have to walk away or take a conversation to PM, because continuing a conversation won't accomplish anything.

So definitely don't go, Lurker, and don't change! Just a suggestion to both parties: sometimes ya gotta speak your mind and be done.

longlostposter · Post by **longlostposter** » Sat May 12, 2007 5:33 pm

Broken Kid wrote:So definitely don't go, Lurker, and don't change! Just a suggestion to both parties: sometimes ya gotta speak your mind and be done.

Good advice, BK.

chershaytoute · Post by **chershaytoute** » Sat May 12, 2007 9:56 pm

Thanks, BK.

I've posted one of my overly long, Diane-style rambling on-and-on (and on and on and on...and on and on....) posts in that particular Video thread about everyone in general's style and etc. (cuz I refuse to focus on just one-or-another person...championship fence-sitter that I am <rueful grin>) I will, btw, be cleaning that thread up fairly soon. Just cuz I have a magical feather duster and an OCD forum cleaning jones that must be satisfied...

Semi-relevant Storytime...

This cracks my son up every time...

When one of my grandgirlies came running into the kitchen recently to tattle on another, my son looked at her, then looked at me and said, "Better not let Kanga (that'd be me) hear you tattling...you don't want to know what she's going to do about it!" She got a very VERY confused look...

The other grandgirlie came running in...and started giggling. You see, she'd already gotten caught in the tattling thing.

My theory is that by the time it escalates to tattling, it's probably gotten to the point of no return...and chances are, everyone is probably at fault by then. So...either EVERYONE is in trouble...or I suggest that everyone heads on back and works things out. I tend to hover close enough to where the working out happens to make sure it's done peacefully (because I know that might not always happen <chuckle>). Nick (my son) remembers that from when he was a kid. Works surprisingly well.

Flamewars, by the time they get to the point of flames, are rather similar. By the time things are in flames, it kinda seems as if everyone has a bit of blame attached/no one is completely blame free. On the other hand, no one is really and truly awfulnastybad either! In this case, I absolutely love Lurker (he knows this, I hope - heck, I invited him over to share a bottle of wine with me t'other night). I truly adore Luminous - she and I share a love for both VoyBoy's dreams YES! and Facility J. I think very highly of Renegade, who has sparred recently with Lurker. There're several other folks who debate with Lurker who I admire quite highly.

I have volunteered in that thread to keep an especially close watch in that forum...to be available by PM/email/IMs (I have no life

), and to do creative scootery...

I'm one of those people who figures that the best of all worlds is to make everyone happy...so the idea is...video talk in the video threads...and debate and discussion in either Plot Discussion threads and/or Off The Cuff threads. If another mod or myself doesn't get to it first, you are welcome to PM me, email me, IM me. As I keep telling everyone, I have no life... <snicker> Seriously, I'm online a lot, and when I'm online, I always have at least one window open in the forums. The only problem is, I often have my headphones plugged in, so I don't always hear the sound of email/IMs right away, but as soon as I see/hear that I've got something to do, it'll get done...

Oh, and Lurker, if you leave, I'm taking back my invite for wine...and this is the best damned Shiraz I have EVER had! <nodding MOST emphatically>

ladysolitary85 · Post by **ladysolitary85** » Sun May 13, 2007 1:25 am

Lurker,

There is something about you that makes you stand out in this forum, something unique. Never change your ideas, your personality, who YOU are just because a few people have had a beef with you.

"Its better to be beheaded for who you are than to be loved by who your not"

So no Lurker, I don't want you to leave.

annie · Post by **annie** » Sun May 13, 2007 8:18 am

Lurker, I'm going to break briefly from the decision I made a while back to quit posting here to put in my two cents, if I may.

I quit posting because 1) I'm intensely busy in all areas of my life and I can't really be a consistent member of an online community, unless or until my life settles; and 2) there was some heavy-handedness from one of the mods last Fall/Winter that was tinged with bias. The two combined just made it better for me to step away from participating in the lg15 forum.

However, I do still watch the videos (and avoid the commentary right below the vids); and, when I have time, I go to this forum to read the video and plot discussions... I always look for your name because I know that what time I have to read the ideas and debates will be well spent by reading what you write.
There are others whose posts are very insightful and interesting, too... but your forum name is the likeliest to lead to a discussion that I'll be glad I have read.
There have been times when I've skimmed some of what you write -- as I do with other's posts, at times, too -- and I have felt very _occasional_ frustration at the degree to which you analyze minutia... but that rare frustration is balanced by admiration of your incredible attention to detail and ability to deduce with a logical fluency that I wish I had as consistently as you do. I also enjoy your posts because a depth of kindness and good heart come through from your posts along with your intelligence.

Please absolutely do not leave and do not change your style or I will lose one of the reasons I still come here to read!!

joygasm · Post by **joygasm** » Sun May 13, 2007 8:38 am

Oh Lurker!!! You know we all love you! Don't let a couple of people speak for all of us. I don't post that often anymore in the video threads. I will jump back in there soon. When I was posting there regularly, I would always ready your posts to see if you picked up on anything in my posts. I always enjoy your debates, along with a couple of other people's here. I like your style. Some people don't know the difference between an on topic debate and personal attacks.

My point: Don't change. Don't leave!

joygasm · Post by **joygasm** » Sun May 13, 2007 8:41 am

annie wrote:
I quit posting because 1) I'm intensely busy in all areas of my life and I can't really be a consistent member of an online community, unless or until my life settles; ...

However, I do still watch the videos (and avoid the commentary right below the vids); and, when I have time, I go to this forum to read the video and plot discussions... I always look for your name because I know that what time I have to read the ideas and debates will be well spent by reading what you write.
There are others whose posts are very insightful and interesting, too... but your forum name is the likeliest to lead to a discussion that I'll be glad I have read.
... admiration of your incredible attention to detail and ability to deduce with a logical fluency that I wish I had as consistently as you do. I also enjoy your posts because a depth of kindness and good heart come through from your posts along with your intelligence.

Please absolutely do not leave and do not change your style or I will lose one of the reasons I still come here to read!!

Wow!! I should have just read this before posting. Very well said.

nowherepixie · Post by **nowherepixie** » Sun May 13, 2007 8:42 am

Stay, Never change

annie · Post by **annie** » Sun May 13, 2007 9:03 am

joygasm wrote: Wow!! I should have just read this before posting. Very well said.

Thank you, Joygasm... but there no "should've read" here. I read your post and thought "Wow. well said!"

nowherepixie · Post by **nowherepixie** » Sun May 13, 2007 9:06 am

Me too

zachary2020 · Post by **zachary2020** » Sun May 13, 2007 12:09 pm

Dude, if you quit this forum, can I hire you as systems analyst for my startup company??

My buddy tipped me off to this thread and I'm one of those who watches the videos and reads the video and plot posts on this forum, but doesn't cop to active posting.

I gotta say, there a handful of regulars who I think of as the neural synapses of the forum and you're definitely one of them... one of the main ones.

I remember one time when I posted something about the motivation behind one of the characters' then-recent actions, I think it was Danielbeast. You really went into a debate with me. I answered, and you drilled it down to the gritty components with references to parts of other videos. I was mad at first, because you slayed my premise. I think I wrote something about just coming here for fun so back off. Still, I had to own that it was my own sloppy logic and sellf-expression that made me feel so drilled, not you. You stayed polite and objective. It was hard for me to admit you were right, but I enjoyed the exchange nonetheless.

That's not why I quit posting, by the way.

So, yeah... I mean it. Just going by what I've seen of your solid intellectual chops and talent with communication I'd hire you in a heartbeat (if I ever get the loan for this startup), if that says anything.

The only thing I'd say you could change would be if you'd maybe recognize when someone realizes they're in over their head in a debate with you and they don't have the good grace to admit it, so they go on the offensive... maybe let them off a little easier.

Other than that, Don't change a thing, dude.