Due to a recent discussion in the videos' section of the forum, I'm making this thread to ask whether you guys want my discussion style here to change or if you even want me to leave. I ask that you read the discussion on pages 8 through 11 of this thread to see what has led me to present this choice to all of you, and so that — if you really do want a change — you know that there's someone who's already set the precedent, such that you don't have to be concerned about being the first to speak up.
I'd also appreciate it if you'd inform me in your responses of any grievances you have with me or any offenses I have made toward you. I've not been perfect here, I know that. I know of at least a couple of you (outside of the discussion linked to above) I've had harsh words with. I like to think that I give you all respect, though, in how I speak to you and how I take the time to thoroughly respond to things you say.
But that's up to you guys, and that's what you're here to decide. So let me have it. Anything you've ever wanted to say to me, here's your chance to do it. If I'm a scumbug, feel free to say it. I'd like to ask right now that the Moderators don't edit or otherwise punish anyone for voicing their thoughts on me in here. I'm extending an open invitation, and I want everyone to feel they can be honest.
By the way, I'm not attaching a poll to this thread. I'm not a big fan of them, really, and I'd like everyone with an opinon to explain it in their own words, and in as much detail as they'd like.
So, that's it. The starting gates are open, people.
Should Lurker's discussion style change? Should he leave?
Moderators: Moderators, Ambassadors
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djmadscribbler
- Devoted Fan
- Posts: 689
- Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:36 pm
- Location: The outer reaches of the inner circle
- Contact:
I for one don't want to see you go Lurker. I may not always agree with you but you do always have good discussion points and you present them in a logical way (by logical here I mean incredibly lengthy) (just kidding!).
I think some of the others in that thread (cough**renegade**cough) are a little worked up about this whole thing. As I mentioned in a different thread on a similar topic, I believe that we were supposed to be disgusted by BDJ kidnapping this girl. I think the Creators are drawing parallels between the behavior of the Order and the behavior of BDJ. But I'm digressing here.
The point is I like your posts and I think this forum would be worse off if you were to a) leave or b) change your posting style. I hope you stay here just as you are.
I think some of the others in that thread (cough**renegade**cough) are a little worked up about this whole thing. As I mentioned in a different thread on a similar topic, I believe that we were supposed to be disgusted by BDJ kidnapping this girl. I think the Creators are drawing parallels between the behavior of the Order and the behavior of BDJ. But I'm digressing here.
The point is I like your posts and I think this forum would be worse off if you were to a) leave or b) change your posting style. I hope you stay here just as you are.
We shall nonetheless move forward to carve a name for ourselves in the annals of bold insurgency and death-defying derring-do. Once I have a keen blade at my hip and the Jolly Roger is flapping high above me, I believe I will find my true calling.
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LesterG
- The Order of Denderah
- Posts: 4245
- Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:40 pm
- Location: Missin' my Bad Ass buddy
Lurker,
I really don't need to read all the pages on that thread... the videos thread gets ridiculous and some people tend to take thing entirely out of proportion. Not to say I didn't skim tho.
That being said... no lurker, no. you don't change your style/personality to fit other peoples needs. Your integrity is all that matters, otherwise where would each person's right to free will come at all? we aren't sheep, we aren't machines and we damn well aren't anyone's puppets.
I like your originality and I like your opinions. If someone has a problem with that, oh well... ttyl =P
btw you got lass on your side mang, you can't lose =P she's top-notch
I really don't need to read all the pages on that thread... the videos thread gets ridiculous and some people tend to take thing entirely out of proportion. Not to say I didn't skim tho.
That being said... no lurker, no. you don't change your style/personality to fit other peoples needs. Your integrity is all that matters, otherwise where would each person's right to free will come at all? we aren't sheep, we aren't machines and we damn well aren't anyone's puppets.
I like your originality and I like your opinions. If someone has a problem with that, oh well... ttyl =P
btw you got lass on your side mang, you can't lose =P she's top-notch
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VeiwerZane
- The Order of Denderah
- Posts: 3201
- Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:36 pm
- Location: Where else but Daniel, ma Belle?
As far as i can see from that thread you were pushed into defending yourself.
2 people in my college get into these sort of arguments all year. One knows whats right and normaly has the morral highground while the other has a point and sticks to it. We end up listening to these discusions going on for like an hour or more.
(seriously i almost took photos of all 3 bridges to proove there were 3 bridges and not 4 in our town)
You were simply makeing your point of veiw liek you always do and renagade said his. You tried standing by your point but there were more sideing with the other side of teh argument outnumbering you. I dont see why you should change your structured posts just becuase of this incedent.
Besides its becuase you have such well planed points/posts that you just got your own fanclub so i think you have plenty of people standing at your side. (Renagades jelous) oh and you were the one with the moral highground in that example i gave.
2 people in my college get into these sort of arguments all year. One knows whats right and normaly has the morral highground while the other has a point and sticks to it. We end up listening to these discusions going on for like an hour or more.
(seriously i almost took photos of all 3 bridges to proove there were 3 bridges and not 4 in our town)
You were simply makeing your point of veiw liek you always do and renagade said his. You tried standing by your point but there were more sideing with the other side of teh argument outnumbering you. I dont see why you should change your structured posts just becuase of this incedent.
Besides its becuase you have such well planed points/posts that you just got your own fanclub so i think you have plenty of people standing at your side. (Renagades jelous) oh and you were the one with the moral highground in that example i gave.
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Flautapantera
- Moderator
- Posts: 4941
- Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:00 pm
- Location: Lost; if found, please notify
- Contact:
I love Lurker. I'm jonesin' for the day he shows up in a vid, goes off on an obsessively detailed diatribe about the plot and inevitable downfall of the show, then saves the TAAG in a rather obscure manner (yet to be determined).
Vice President of the Owen Fan Club
You know that moment where you just want to grab a pair of scissors and run away with them?
You know that moment where you just want to grab a pair of scissors and run away with them?
i also like you, i think your great in the discussion about videos n the clues n what not... i havent reely spoke to u much outside of discussions but from what i've seen you seem pretty cool 
my name is josh, not iamcool or iam or cool
cooltron5000 is also accepted
My lawyers told me to edit the content of this signature so i didn't get sued
Me and Oobles are 'TWAT's - 'The Worldwide Association of Threadjacking'
cooltron5000 is also accepted
My lawyers told me to edit the content of this signature so i didn't get sued
Me and Oobles are 'TWAT's - 'The Worldwide Association of Threadjacking'
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robtomorrow
- Devoted Fan
- Posts: 842
- Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:47 pm
- Location: Seattle
I certainly don't want you to leave Lurker, I even joined your fan club.
I haven't minded you disagreeing with me, and have enjoyed the exchanges I have had with you. But then I don't post anything worth dissecting anymore, the series doesn't inspire me to detailed analysis , my posts about the LG15 videos are usually facetious these days.
But to be honest I also understand Luminous's point of view. Most people are here to have fun, many want to to be able to post an opinion, or observation without having someone dissect and criticize it. On the other hand it is always a kick when someone acknowledges your post by quoting it, and either agreeing with you or voicing an alternative opinion. So I guess what I am saying is that there is a balance to be struck between engaging others and not overly dissecting and criticizing thier opinion, so that others feel welcome and don't feel shut out or overly criticized.
I haven't minded you disagreeing with me, and have enjoyed the exchanges I have had with you. But then I don't post anything worth dissecting anymore, the series doesn't inspire me to detailed analysis , my posts about the LG15 videos are usually facetious these days.
But to be honest I also understand Luminous's point of view. Most people are here to have fun, many want to to be able to post an opinion, or observation without having someone dissect and criticize it. On the other hand it is always a kick when someone acknowledges your post by quoting it, and either agreeing with you or voicing an alternative opinion. So I guess what I am saying is that there is a balance to be struck between engaging others and not overly dissecting and criticizing thier opinion, so that others feel welcome and don't feel shut out or overly criticized.
Last edited by robtomorrow on Fri May 11, 2007 5:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Languorous Lass
- The Order of Denderah
- Posts: 2568
- Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:06 pm
- Location: Gone, baby, gone
Lurker, I think I've told you this before, but reading your fascinating, well-reasoned and well-written posts was one of the primary things that got me posting on this forum in the first place. Your continued presence has kept me posting here during times when it looked like LG15: The Series was going down the toilet.
You and I have butted heads a very few times, and when that's happened, we've always been able to talk about it, either publicly or via PM, and clear things up right away. I have also always trusted you as keeping a clear head and being able to provide an objective view about many, many issues related to this board, and have on occasion even sought your advice.
I've also had the privilege of having you ask me for opinions and advice, and for that reason I know how hard you work to maintain a calm and reasoned tone in your posts.
If you leave this board, I'm not sure I would bother sticking around. Engaging in discourse with you is a very large percentage of what makes the forum fun for me. (And yes, I do mean "fun.")
Please don't change your posting style, or your dissection of the videos and the theories about them.
MHO, of course.
You and I have butted heads a very few times, and when that's happened, we've always been able to talk about it, either publicly or via PM, and clear things up right away. I have also always trusted you as keeping a clear head and being able to provide an objective view about many, many issues related to this board, and have on occasion even sought your advice.
I've also had the privilege of having you ask me for opinions and advice, and for that reason I know how hard you work to maintain a calm and reasoned tone in your posts.
If you leave this board, I'm not sure I would bother sticking around. Engaging in discourse with you is a very large percentage of what makes the forum fun for me. (And yes, I do mean "fun.")
Please don't change your posting style, or your dissection of the videos and the theories about them.
MHO, of course.
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ApotheosisAZ
- The Order of Denderah
- Posts: 3151
- Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:43 pm
- Location: Snoresville, Baby.
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longlostposter
- The Order of Denderah
- Posts: 5185
- Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:55 am
- Location: Louisiana
- Contact:
Apo, thank you so much for joining the club.ApotheosisAZ wrote:I certainly do not wish to see a change in your style, and I definitely do not want to see you leave here.
Well, since I'm the founder of the Lurker Fan Club, I really don't think it's necessary to reiterate my obvious love of Lurker (and his posts) here.
As you were, Lurker, my bud.
You can call me Juli or LLP, whichever suits your fancy.
I want the ghost of Jim Morrison to come and haunt me.
Proud member of the DB Fan Club.
Shout outs to my beautiful daughter badkittyx1505, Aithne, and Lurker.
I want the ghost of Jim Morrison to come and haunt me.
Proud member of the DB Fan Club.
Shout outs to my beautiful daughter badkittyx1505, Aithne, and Lurker.
Lurker, people always say that they won't love the forums or LG even if this certain thing happens, yet they don't always (hell almost no one) means it.
I am sincere in the fact that I could not enjoy the forum without you.
You are very though provoking and I admire your views and opinions.
Also, Ma Belle wouldn't be the same without you chiming in.
In all seriousness though, I would be very upset to see you leave. Please, do not change or leave. Lurker, you are one of the few people on here that if I see you reply to something, I have to read the whole damn thread.
Lurker... <3.
That about says it right there.
I am sincere in the fact that I could not enjoy the forum without you.
You are very though provoking and I admire your views and opinions.
Also, Ma Belle wouldn't be the same without you chiming in.
In all seriousness though, I would be very upset to see you leave. Please, do not change or leave. Lurker, you are one of the few people on here that if I see you reply to something, I have to read the whole damn thread.
Lurker... <3.
That about says it right there.
Curfuffle thy forumite.
You just had a Kyle moment.
You just had a Kyle moment.
I like banter and debate. I love it when someone quotes one of my posts and expresses his/her own thoughts on it. Even if that person disagrees with me, I like it because I know that someone is thinking about what I said. . . which, to me, is the whole point of the forum.
I still think of myself as being pretty new, but one of the first things I learned here was that Lurker usually has something valuable to say. . . not that anyone had to tell me. It was just that I very quickly found myself scrolling down to his posts. Very often, a bunch of people will be saying the same thing, and then Lurker chimes in and the conversation starts to get lively.
So, yes, I would be very disappointed if Lurker changed, laid low, or left the forum (even though I'm pretty confident you would not actually do the last, Lurker). Since you asked, I would say that some of the longer posts with multiple quotes are a bit difficult to follow. This could just be personal taste, but I will sometimes lose focus and stop reading when it gets really long. I've tried to avoid these types of posts myself, but admit I have made one or two, just because -- sometimes you have a lot to say!
All in all, I have found Lurker to be engaging, unintimidating, intellectual, and courteous. I'm still debating on whether to join the fan club. It's so post-modern -- a fan with a fan club. That almost makes it more attractive in a way.
I still think of myself as being pretty new, but one of the first things I learned here was that Lurker usually has something valuable to say. . . not that anyone had to tell me. It was just that I very quickly found myself scrolling down to his posts. Very often, a bunch of people will be saying the same thing, and then Lurker chimes in and the conversation starts to get lively.
So, yes, I would be very disappointed if Lurker changed, laid low, or left the forum (even though I'm pretty confident you would not actually do the last, Lurker). Since you asked, I would say that some of the longer posts with multiple quotes are a bit difficult to follow. This could just be personal taste, but I will sometimes lose focus and stop reading when it gets really long. I've tried to avoid these types of posts myself, but admit I have made one or two, just because -- sometimes you have a lot to say!
All in all, I have found Lurker to be engaging, unintimidating, intellectual, and courteous. I'm still debating on whether to join the fan club. It's so post-modern -- a fan with a fan club. That almost makes it more attractive in a way.
Rosencrantz: Another curious scientific phenomenon is the fact that the fingernails grow after death, as does the beard.
Guildenstern: What?
Rosencrantz: Beard. . . The toenails, on the other hand, never grow at all.
Guildenstern: What?
Rosencrantz: Beard. . . The toenails, on the other hand, never grow at all.
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Aithne
I’m going to begin this post by explaining that I have written it and edited it at least 3 times in Word, because I really do not want to offend anyone. So if anyone feels offended by this post, please note that no offence was intended.
This series can be likened unto a mystery movie. Nobody in the audience is aware of what is going to happen next.
Now there are two ways of enjoying a mystery movie. You can watch the movie and see what happens as it unfolds, or you can watch the movie while looking for clues as to what is going to happen next. Lg15 is unique (when compared to movies), because we have the opportunity to share with each other as we watch the series unfold. As a result, some of us use the forum to tell each other what we like and did not like about the series. Others of us like to watch the series unfold and discuss possibilities of what is going to happen next. Many of us move between the two.
Of those of us that like to discuss where the plot is leading, many of us like to bounce ideas off of one another. As a result there are many times when ideas cannot be shared. Many times, those ideas are debated, and new ideas are formed. I think it is important to note that the new ideas are almost always better then the original ideas. And those of us that recognize that enjoy the exchanges with Lurker.
I believe (and I am not Lurker so I have to stress the ‘believe' part), that Lurker likes the results of bouncing ideas off of each other. It helps him (and me just by reading any exchanges he engages into) to formulate new ideas, modify current ones or stand by the ones he already has with more certainty.
Now, having rambled about the concept of debating, I have to say that I don’t believe the issue was about the debate or even the way you respond to the debate (which by the way I personally love the way you break up posts so as to clearly indicate what you are referencing). The two of you are arguing a Moral Dilemma. You both are on differing sides. Neither of you are going to see the others perspective on this. In most cases, people never change their moral positions in these types of dilemmas.
The following is a link on the Heinz Dilemma, which I have added to give another example of a Moral Dilemma (and because it is one of my favorite Moral Dilemmas)
Following that is an article from the University of Minnesota regarding Moral Dilemmas and that specifically speaks about the Heinz Dilemma. I have added it so that everyone can see how discussions like these have the ability to get people hot around the collar. (Personally I love them, but that is just how I am.)
These are just my thoughts on all of this.
(Lurker, don't you dare leave!)
This series can be likened unto a mystery movie. Nobody in the audience is aware of what is going to happen next.
Now there are two ways of enjoying a mystery movie. You can watch the movie and see what happens as it unfolds, or you can watch the movie while looking for clues as to what is going to happen next. Lg15 is unique (when compared to movies), because we have the opportunity to share with each other as we watch the series unfold. As a result, some of us use the forum to tell each other what we like and did not like about the series. Others of us like to watch the series unfold and discuss possibilities of what is going to happen next. Many of us move between the two.
Of those of us that like to discuss where the plot is leading, many of us like to bounce ideas off of one another. As a result there are many times when ideas cannot be shared. Many times, those ideas are debated, and new ideas are formed. I think it is important to note that the new ideas are almost always better then the original ideas. And those of us that recognize that enjoy the exchanges with Lurker.
I believe (and I am not Lurker so I have to stress the ‘believe' part), that Lurker likes the results of bouncing ideas off of each other. It helps him (and me just by reading any exchanges he engages into) to formulate new ideas, modify current ones or stand by the ones he already has with more certainty.
Now, having rambled about the concept of debating, I have to say that I don’t believe the issue was about the debate or even the way you respond to the debate (which by the way I personally love the way you break up posts so as to clearly indicate what you are referencing). The two of you are arguing a Moral Dilemma. You both are on differing sides. Neither of you are going to see the others perspective on this. In most cases, people never change their moral positions in these types of dilemmas.
The following is a link on the Heinz Dilemma, which I have added to give another example of a Moral Dilemma (and because it is one of my favorite Moral Dilemmas)
Following that is an article from the University of Minnesota regarding Moral Dilemmas and that specifically speaks about the Heinz Dilemma. I have added it so that everyone can see how discussions like these have the ability to get people hot around the collar. (Personally I love them, but that is just how I am.)
These are just my thoughts on all of this.
(Lurker, don't you dare leave!)