DBJ(the new Order?)

khjq · Post by **khjq** » Tue May 08, 2007 12:53 pm

What the people in or associated in some way with The Order have done:

Stalking

Kiddnapping

Brainwashing

What DBJ have done:

B/E

Stalking

Kiddnapping

Brainwashing(telling the poor girl that the Order is evil and that the hymn of one isn't a real religion and that the ceremony is baaaaad)

DBJ don't know what the ceremony is, they know nothing!
they are filling julia's head full of propaganda

also Bree told us before that the Order has hundreds of girls. What is Bree gonna do, spend the rest of her life stalking and kiddnapping girls to prevent them from doing a ceremony that she knows nothing about?!?!?

Spades · Post by **Spades** » Tue May 08, 2007 12:57 pm

Looks like.

Tachyon, oh Tachyon, where art thou?
BDJ wish to fight, but they know not how.
You had an idea, and really kicked ass,
BDJ looks dumb enough to eat glass.
We need you now, along with your crew,
You're the only ones who can see this fight through.

Haether · Post by **Haether** » Tue May 08, 2007 1:17 pm

DBJ don't know what the ceremony is, they know nothing!

maybe it's just pizza and spin art!
before they kill you and ritually burn your flesh as a sacrifice...whatever.

Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Tue May 08, 2007 1:18 pm

What you're doing here, khjq, is reducing what's occurred to actions and not motivations or intentions. The Order wants what they want, regardless of people's safety or happiness. BD&J are trying to protect Jules so that she can have safety and happiness. Big difference.

The world doesn't run on black and white. It runs on the friction produced when you put them together and get grey.

Spades · Post by **Spades** » Tue May 08, 2007 1:25 pm

Haether wrote: maybe it's just pizza and spin art!
before they kill you and ritually burn your flesh as a sacrifice...whatever.

Oooh, sounds like fun, sign me up!

Wait a minute, what does that small print say...

giddeanx · Post by **giddeanx** » Tue May 08, 2007 1:36 pm

You should add Murder to the the Orders crimes.

But is it what you do, or what you stand for and your overarching goal that makes you "good" or "bad". I would hope it would be your principles and why you fight that is important.

I was going to say more but these cliches will speak for me:

The end justifies the means.

You can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Libra · Post by **Libra** » Tue May 08, 2007 1:44 pm

giddeanx wrote:You should add Murder to the the Orders crimes.

But is it what you do, or what you stand for and your overarching goal that makes you "good" or "bad". I would hope it would be your principles and why you fight that is important.

I was going to say more but these cliches will speak for me:

The end justifies the means.

You can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Didn't Op use that quote to justify what they were doing too

"The ends justify the means."

garnet · Post by **garnet** » Tue May 08, 2007 3:21 pm

As other have said before me, this video poses more questions than it does answers:

What is Bree's ultimate goal? To stop Jules from doing the ceremony? To become Tachyon? To overturn the Order? At what cost?

At what point does she begin to become the very thing that she despises? Is Bree capable of admitting a mistake and experiencing true regret? I mean worse than just saying, "oops, sorry" and tilting her head to the side.

Is Bree ready to fight the order, or does she need to grow up a little first? Is there something she's missing?

Story-wise, it feels like the trio has already sunk to the depths with Daniel's alcoholism and their time in the bunker. The next phase would be to lay all the cards on the table, get all the information they can, and make their stand. I really don't understand what's going on right now or how it fits into the big picture.

RockinDuckie558 · Post by **RockinDuckie558** » Tue May 08, 2007 3:31 pm

I understand that BDJ want to help out Jules, but you don't go and kidnap her for "her safety" and try to persuade her to not do the ceremony. True that the Order are more dangerous than BDJ, but they shouldn't break the law in order to persuade the girl to not do the ceremony against her own will.

fsk282 · Post by **fsk282** » Tue May 08, 2007 6:18 pm

I agree, Free Will vs. Coersion and KIDNAPPING well it doesn't seem like much of a choice. Of course the Order is going to look like the good guys to Jules now. And it's just like I just finished typing somewhere else, to elicit any kind of support from me that that kidnapping was justified, I would need to know what the ceremony is. The problem is, although the show has been good lately, that question is still BLARINGLY obvious--I can't feel passionate about rescuing this new girl if I don't know the evil things that her religion is going to do to her. "The ceremony" could be just the spin art and pizza for all we know! How do we know that she can't do the ceremony AND have safety and happiness afterwards? We don't.

giddeanx · Post by **giddeanx** » Tue May 08, 2007 9:07 pm

Libra wrote:
giddeanx wrote:You should add Murder to the the Orders crimes.

But is it what you do, or what you stand for and your overarching goal that makes you "good" or "bad". I would hope it would be your principles and why you fight that is important.

I was going to say more but these cliches will speak for me:

The end justifies the means.

You can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Didn't Op use that quote to justify what they were doing too

"The ends justify the means."

That is the tricky thing being human. You realize there is no evil at the point of impact. Every person who made large events happen felt they were justified in doing it and felt it was the right thing to do. It is a matter of time and perspective to decide weither they were evil madmen or brave heroes. Hitler felt he was justified as did Truman. Both commited mass murder by command. Both felt they were justified. Time and our perspective has painted Hitler as a madman and Truman as a hero.* I feel rightly so, but the correctness of this perspective is not what I am discussing. It's the fact that the results seen with time do in fact determine wiether this action was for good or evil, weither or not the action itself was deplorable .

* The Holocaust and the nuclear bombing of Japan were bold examples and I apologize if in using them I have offended.