Callmejules

spaciegirlreturn · Post by **spaciegirlreturn** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:38 pm

Susan wrote:I'd like to clarify here. Saying "She is a bad actress." is an opinion is moot. Critique is all about the word "constructive" and nothing about the word "criticism". If you can't state clear, logical reasons for your opinion, you shouldn't be stating your opinion. If you can't help, don't take the scalpel.

Hmm, I don't think so. My definition of "critique" doesn't only include "constructive" criticism. I guess, that's the general..umm.."ideal" type of critique, but my experience with critique includes informal discussion of work..where opinion, whether constructive (neccessarily) or not, would be included. If we can't state our opinions without excessive editing or "consideration"..well, that's kind of cesonrship-like in my opinion. When you start to compare people making honest statements and discussing something openly to "taking a scalpel"...well, we're entering the dangerous territory I referenced earlier.

Kasdeja · Post by **Kasdeja** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:22 am

So we have people trained as writers, poets, actors and artists and not one of them can even agree on the definition of critique...to me that says something.

rupaZer0 · Post by **rupaZer0** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:34 am

I don't think the disagreement lies in what critique is. I think it lies in what constitutes well-intentioned constructive criticism.

While we all agree that honesty is important people like BK and Susan are arguing that it is important to be honest in way that clearly states what the object of criticism lacks and what it doesn't lack, and not in a way that attacks the artist or leaves the artist feeling personally inadequate. Kasdeja and spacie are arguing that in trying to rephrase your criticism in a way that doesn't hurt people you're not being honest, and don't like being asked to compromise their self-expression for the sake of other people's feelings.

That's my interpretation. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Kasdeja · Post by **Kasdeja** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:36 am

Now, is that really what I said? No, I was starting off in this because so many were coming off as "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all" OR "If you don't think it's good you are being cruel"...which isn't so. From there there seems to be quite a discussion on critique and constructive criticism...being discussed between different sorts of artsy folks...and everyone still has a different opinion.

longlostposter · Post by **longlostposter** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:48 am

I think we should use her to find out more about the ceremony, and then kill her off.

Something weird is happening with the insistence of pushing this girl down our collective throats.

ETA: Nevermind, I don't want her around long enough to use her.

impulse · Post by **impulse** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:49 am

Dear Jules,

I would like to thank you for giving us the opportunity to examine your credentials and accomplishments as an aspiring young Order victim. We have been fortunate to secure many fine candidates for the position of New Girl at the Hymn Of One Office of Ceremony, Sacrifice and Mass Murder.

The Watch, Search and Destroy Committee has had a most difficult screening task owing to the large number of qualified applicants. The Committee found your credentials to be most noteworthy. However, we regret that we are unable at this time to continue your candidacy for this position.

We thank you for your interest in the Hymn Of One Office of Ceremony, Sacrifice and Mass Murder and we wish you continued success in reaching your suicidal goals.

Sincerely,

Deacon of HoO.

longlostposter · Post by **longlostposter** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:52 am

rupaZer0 · Post by **rupaZer0** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:58 am

Kasdeja wrote:Now, is that really what I said? No, I was starting off in this because so many were coming off as "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all" OR "If you don't think it's good you are being cruel"...which isn't so. From there there seems to be quite a discussion on critique and constructive criticism...being discussed between different sorts of artsy folks...and everyone still has a different opinion.

I don't think anyone actually said that either, and BK has repeatedly said as much. Does this mean you agree that it's important not to phrase criticism in a way that hurts people's feelings? It sounds like you're annoyed at me putting words in your mouth.

Kasdeja · Post by **Kasdeja** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:59 am

Man, that's like a college let down letter.

impulse · Post by **impulse** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:04 am

Kasdeja wrote: Man, that's like a college let down letter.

Kasdeja · Post by **Kasdeja** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:10 am

rupaZer0 wrote:
Kasdeja wrote:Now, is that really what I said? No, I was starting off in this because so many were coming off as "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all" OR "If you don't think it's good you are being cruel"...which isn't so. From there there seems to be quite a discussion on critique and constructive criticism...being discussed between different sorts of artsy folks...and everyone still has a different opinion.
I don't think anyone actually said that either, and BK has repeatedly said as much. Does this mean you agree that it's important not to phrase criticism in a way that hurts people's feelings? It sounds like you're annoyed at me putting words in your mouth.

How did you get that from anythign I've written?

rupaZer0 · Post by **rupaZer0** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:14 am

Kasdeja wrote:
rupaZer0 wrote:
Kasdeja wrote:Now, is that really what I said? No, I was starting off in this because so many were coming off as "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all" OR "If you don't think it's good you are being cruel"...which isn't so. From there there seems to be quite a discussion on critique and constructive criticism...being discussed between different sorts of artsy folks...and everyone still has a different opinion.
I don't think anyone actually said that either, and BK has repeatedly said as much. Does this mean you agree that it's important not to phrase criticism in a way that hurts people's feelings? It sounds like you're annoyed at me putting words in your mouth.
How did you get that from anythign I've written?

Basically, from, 'Now, is that what I said? No...' If you weren't showing that I'd irritated you by misinterpreting what you'd said before then what were you showing?

Kasdeja · Post by **Kasdeja** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:51 am

I'm probably just coming off a little short because I'm in extreme pain right now, so I apologize. I have a doctor's appt in about two hours and hopefully I'll be better after that.

rupaZer0 · Post by **rupaZer0** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:04 pm

Kasdeja wrote:I'm probably just coming off a little short because I'm in extreme pain right now, so I apologize. I have a doctor's appt in about two hours and hopefully I'll be better after that.

I wasn't offended, I was just trying to find out what you were trying to say. Hope you're okay.

Kasdeja · Post by **Kasdeja** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:34 pm

I just want to say I'm not trying to defend rudeness. That wasn't my goal, it was merely that just because some of us offer sound advice and do not like this character, that doesn't mean we are being cruel. I've seen the remarks about her that would be cruel, but not all. But, it also seems that everyone has different opinions on what counts as constructive and what doesn't. I don't really want to argue with anyone. I think we are pretty much on the same page.

Lonelygirl15

Callmejules

What to do with Jules?