Callmejules

[rupaZer0]

It really does take a lot of skill to be honest without hurting people. There's been books written about it. On top of that, cruel humour has been de rigeur for at least ten years now, probably more - and while it's possible to be funny without being cruel, we don't get much exposure to this kind of humour. Even people with the best of intentions, who try their hardest day in day out to make this world a little more positive, can still get it wrong and hurt someone's feelings. I don't really blame people who stop trying not to hurt people and just let rip with cruelty. There are times when things have to be said, and if something's worth doing, it's worth doing badly.

Having said that, I disagree with the cruelty itself, and I have always been very appreciative of the mods efforts to keep a lid on cruel communication on this forum. And I think that in most situations, mean things simply shouldn't be said. I want to thank people for their comments against cruelty, particularly BK, who seems to manage to express everything in a non-judgemental way. It's amazing how being in a position of moral superiority can sometimes cause us to make value judgements and accusations, but BK seems to be immune.

[Broken Kid]

I want to thank people for their comments against cruelty, particularly BK, who seems to manage to express everything in a non-judgemental way. It's amazing how being in a position of moral superiority can sometimes cause us to make value judgements and accusations, but BK seems to be immune.

I wish I was, but by no means... Honestly, sometimes it comes down to thinking two or three times before writing what you think of writing. That's the benefit of an online forum rather than an in-person one, where there typically isn't time to think things through first. But if I think about what I want to post, I can usually find a way to express what I want to say and make my point in a productive way.

[Kasdeja]

I know BK didn't mean it...but the way some people are posting it's like if you don't like something you are being cruel for simply being honest. Can we get away from those types of statements? Because I believe in being honest first and foremost...and I try to be fair and balanced. Ihave given constructive criticism for years and when I say someone really needs to polish up on something like acting skills, it's coming from an actress who has been acting since she was 12 and has directed plays....so I know what it is to be in the position of this young actress...and it's a bit condescending when people tell you you don't know what you are talking about and that you are being cruel when in reality you are being much nicer and trying to HELP the person more than any director I have come into contact with would have responded. Hope this post made sense...

[khjq]

The truth is that acting clearly isn't for her, IMO she wasn't even acting, she was either saying her lines straight from her memory or reading off cue cards. She's just a bad actress plain and simple. Thats the truth without being harsh and cruel.

Seriously can someone tell me why there is so many emo people on these forums?

If u can't take criticism, wether it be constructive or "cruel" then don't expose ur goddamn self to the world, cuz the world is a big cruel place, get over it.

[Susan]

If u can't take criticism, wether it be constructive or "cruel" then don't expose ur goddamn self to the world, cuz the world is a big cruel place, get over it.

You sound like you're twelve, honey. The whole point of humans taking such a major percentage of their life to mature is that we have to learn to control our baser instincts. Just because you can be cruel--just because others are being cruel to us--doesn't make it right or helpful to be cruel back. Don't live up to those around you. Find an ideal and aspire to it.

[Kasdeja]

Thing is...what he said about the actress wasn't cruel. I've seen the cruel comments...and there was no question on those. Now it's turning into "if you don't like something and are honest or give honest feedback, you are cruel. say you like it or say nothing at all."

[Ziola]

*has been saying nothing at all for that very reason*

[Kasdeja]

What's cruel is letting someone waltz through life thinking they are good at something, knowing one day they will be knocked down and wonder why nobody ever gave them honest feedback.

[Susan]

I'm sorry for the flame. I just got poked in one of my (numerous) buttons. I've seen the most cruel of statements couched in the kind of rhetoric that starts with, "I'm sorry but..." The words "she can't act" aren't constructive criticism, and "She sucks" helps no one.

I'm a writer, and my biggest complaint is the number of people who tell me, "This is good." and think it is constructive. Constructive means you show them HOW it is good or HOW it is bad. You tell them HOW you felt when you read something. When I present something to the public I don't want people to shut up if they hated it, but I also don't want 10 different kinds of invectives in place of an "I found it slow in the beginning." or "The main character just wasn't believable."

People have a right to know how well their work is being received, but that shouldn't bleed over into character assassination or stony silence.

[Broken Kid]

I know BK didn't mean it...but the way some people are posting it's like if you don't like something you are being cruel for simply being honest. Can we get away from those types of statements? Because I believe in being honest first and foremost...and I try to be fair and balanced.

Back at the beginning of this discussion, I said a few times that we're not trying to stifle anyone's opinion. You can absolutely state your opinion and you can be honest. The point is to do it in a respectful manner.

As you pointed out, you can say that a person's acting skills need work. You can say that a person needs to work on their script or their presentation. But saying "you suck" or "give it up" or "she's unwatchable" (I'm not saying you, Kas, said this) is ultimately unproductive.

I think the point was really just to be respectful without stifling anyone's point of view!

[Kasdeja]

Which is why one of myfirst comments when Jules was introduced to us was that she needs to work on her languages and she should consider getting an acting coach. I just don't like that so many people seem to be roundabout saying that those of us that don't like this character should just be quiet. I have no intention to be cruel, but as an actress/director to a budding actress...I feel it irresponsible to merely stroke her ego and set her up to fail. But, I think you get my drift.

[Lurker]

If u can't take criticism, wether it be constructive or "cruel" then don't expose ur goddamn self to the world, cuz the world is a big cruel place, get over it.

You sound like you're twelve, honey. The whole point of humans taking such a major percentage of their life to mature is that we have to learn to control our baser instincts. Just because you can be cruel--just because others are being cruel to us--doesn't make it right or helpful to be cruel back. Don't live up to those around you. Find an ideal and aspire to it.

I have to agree with Susan on this. Saying "The world is cruel, deal with it" essentially justifies any manner of harm people cause one another and tells those who are hurt by it to stop "whining" if they're unhappy about it. That doesn't make sense.

One can easily offer honest, productive critiques in which they reveal that they don't like something without resorting to cruel measures. It's not that difficult at all. Sure, there's people who will take anything less than praise badly, but most people would like to know if their work was good or bad, and what they could do to improve it. It's just a matter of people having enough consideration to make the effort - and that, not that people are whiny, is the issue. Encouraging people to be compassionate should be the goal, not encouraging them to become complacent and despair.

[spaciegirlreturn]

I just don't think we should be expected to be "nice", just like we are expected (or maybe encouraged is a better word) not to be "mean". It's hard to critique or discuss any art form (and I use the word art loosely) without stating your personal opinion. Sometimes opinions are not "nice". Like "She is a bad actress." That is an opinion..and it's not really "nice" but I don't think stating that is "mean" either. If you're putting your work out there, people are going to give their opinions. And, yes I understand the concept of tact and not being mean just for the sake of being mean, but I don't think we should all only share our opinions if they are complimentary or nice. That's unrealistic and getting into dangerous territory.

[Lurker]

I think most everyone would agree with that. The idea of not saying anything if something nice can't be said is certainly a terrible one, and leads to all kinds of problems.

I also think the word "nice" could be taken a couple of different ways. There's being complimentary and then there's avoiding being mean. Given how often people are mean to one another, offering a critique without being mean (even when there is no praise involved) is often classified as nice.

I personally don't expect anyone to offer praise or nothing - and wouldn't want them to. I do hope, though, that when their opinion isn't complimentary, they can present it without actually attacking.

[Susan]

I just don't think we should be expected to be "nice", just like we are expected (or maybe encouraged is a better word) not to be "mean". It's hard to critique or discuss any art form (and I use the word art loosely) without stating your personal opinion. Sometimes opinions are not "nice". Like "She is a bad actress." That is an opinion..and it's not really "nice" but I don't think stating that is "mean" either.

I'd like to clarify here. Saying "She is a bad actress." is an opinion is moot. Critique is all about the word "constructive" and nothing about the word "criticism". If you can't state clear, logical reasons for your opinion, you shouldn't be stating your opinion. If you can't help, don't take the scalpel.

I also think the word "nice" could be taken a couple of different ways. There's being complimentary and then there's avoiding being mean. Given how often people are mean to one another, offering a critique without being mean (even when there is no praise involved) is often classified as nice.

Except for in the context of my statement above, I'm with you on this.