Drawings/sketches on Dr. Seuss pages

Aja · Post by **Aja** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:18 pm

So... I think the drawings are just doodles. This appeared to be confirmed by Maddy - chat log is posted here.

This comes from this note from Mr. Zipp:

Empty House?!: Wiggins quote c.1860. 6 broken strings: Mute them.

In chat, Maddy suggested this was a note in response to the note she (the one that Deagol wrote) sent to Mr. Zipp. The note read:

Final check: Sketchy timbre needs clarity: not SM57/58. A4 tuned 15 Hz flat: feedback expected.

So if you match up the two notes, our question about the drawings (sketchy timbre) was answered with "Wiggins quote c.1860." Maddy suggested that this was a musical quote. Doing some research revealed a song written by Thomas "Blind Tom" Wiggins called "Battle of Manassas" which he wrote when he was 12 (1861-ish). This song includes "quotes" of other songs, one of which is "Yankee Doodle."

You can read about the song here: http://artofthestates.org/cgi-bin/piece.pl?pid=274
And listen to a MIDI version here: http://www.twainquotes.com/BattleofManassas.mid

I think this reference to doodle means the drawings are just that - there's no hidden meaning behind them.

chershaytoute · Post by **chershaytoute** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:34 pm

Then why in the world are there so darned MANY of 'em???

ElizKM86 · Post by **ElizKM86** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:38 pm

I read that chat and I didnt see anything that said that the drawings are just doodles. I think you misread something.

Aja · Post by **Aja** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:36 pm

ElizKM86 wrote:I read that chat and I didnt see anything that said that the drawings are just doodles. I think you misread something.

From the chat:
[15:29] <maddison> That would make this second section
[15:29] <maddison> "Wiggins Quote c. 1860 a response
[15:29] <maddison> to...
[15:30] <maddison> Sketchy timbre neets clarity
[15:30] <aja> that what I think, yes
[15:30] <maddison> So Mr. Zipp is quoting a doodle?
[15:30] <aja> maybe
[15:30] <aja> that song has other quotes in it other than yankee doodle
[15:30] <maddison> I think that makes more sense than everything we've said
[15:31] <maddison> but he'd be talking about the sketches to respond to our letter. Right?
[15:31] <aja> yeah
[15:31] <edgyprophet> hmm its scetchy Smile
[15:31] <maddison> lol
[15:31] <edgyprophet> but maybe
[15:32] <maddison> aja - I think that you made a smart observation
[15:32] <maddison> It makes a lot of sense to me

That is as close to a confirmation from Maddy as you're gonna get. Take it as you will.

Jester · Post by **Jester** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:03 am

Thats enough for me. I didn't think the doodles meant much anyway. Too many of them.

giddeanx · Post by **giddeanx** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:33 am

So why did he draw them? Especially since there is so many. I don't think Mr. Zipp would believe in wasting time. If all he wanted to send us was binary and guitar tabs why didn't he just send that?

She seemed to like yankee doodle but she didn't say the doodles have no meaning. You never introduced that concept to her according to the chat logs.

You could have just as easily pulled the song "The Girl I Left Behind" out of the Battle of Manassass. And went any given direction.

I would not completely give up on the sketches especially if they are used as something to help Mr. Zipp think.

deagol · Post by **deagol** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:54 am

Gid, Aja did introduce it as "doodles have no meaning" and it seemed like Maddy agreed, although she showed some confussion about it.

Aja wrote: ...
[15:23] <aja> maddy, did you read what I said earlier about the drawings possibly not meaning anything? do think that's a possibility?
[15:24] <maddison> What you said early was really cool
[15:24] <maddison> ....
[15:24] <maddison> tell me again.
[15:24] <maddison> :-Z
...

giddeanx · Post by **giddeanx** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:38 am

Spent too much time on them. Hate to just junk them on a passing comment. Doesn't really make sense to.

ElizKM86 · Post by **ElizKM86** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:41 am

I'm sorry, I guess I need it spelled out, I still dont see where she confirms that the sketches are meaningless doodles.

I see where Maddison responds to aja

[15:30] <aja> that song has other quotes in it other than yankee doodle
[15:30] <maddison> I think that makes more sense than everything we've said
[15:31] <maddison> but he'd be talking about the sketches to respond to our letter. Right?
[15:31] <aja> yeah
[15:31] <edgyprophet> hmm its scetchy Smile
[15:31] <maddison> lol
[15:31] <edgyprophet> but maybe
[15:32] <maddison> aja - I think that you made a smart observation
[15:32] <maddison> It makes a lot of sense to me

I think what she was confirming was aja pointing out that the song had other quotes. I guess we could always ask Maddison to clarify for us......

Aja · Post by **Aja** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:58 pm

IG Maddison can't clarify anything for us since she doesn't know anything - she is just as confused as we are. The most we will get from her are suggestions and the occasional hint - and in this case, it seemed to me that she was strongly suggesting that "doodle" was the response to our question about the drawings.

Now, I realize that I could have this all wrong. I just wanted to put the info up for other people to make their own decision. I edited my first post to reflect that this is MY opinion, not true fact.

Thanks for keeping me honest Eliz!

Lunafox · Post by **Lunafox** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 9:07 am

I think she was interested in hearing about the "doodles" not in verifying they had no meaning. which is why she said "tell me again" not "you're right I really don't think they mean anything" she wanted to see what we had to say about it.

15:29] <maddison> "Wiggins Quote c. 1860 a response
[15:29] <maddison> to...
[15:30] <maddison> Sketchy timbre neets clarity

so remember "Sketchy timbre needs clarity" means We don't get what you're trying to tell us... please clarify

and Thus Maddisons stressing of the song Yankee doodle when related to the clue "Wiggins Quote c. 1860" does not mean that the pictures are nothing but doodles...but rather means

If you want to understand what I'm saying look at my doodles!

[15:31] <maddison> but he'd be talking about the sketches to respond to our letter. Right?
[15:31] <aja> yeah

If Mr. Zipp was only intrested in referancing yankee doodle I don't think he would have done it with drawings just for this very reason.. if it were only a referance to yankee doodle i'm sure "Wiggins Quote c. 1860" would have been the original clue instead of a response to "i don't get it explain what you're trying to say"

deagol · Post by **deagol** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:19 pm

During that chat I also thought that was what Maddy wanted to highlight from Aja's idea. But my wifi kept dropping on me so I missed bits here and there. One of those times was just after she or someone said "a quote of a doodle" and it just struck me as making a lot of sense: we were kinda playing pictionary for song titles or bands or quotes of lyrics. So as I got back on, I asked her in chat "So Maddy, you think we're playing pictionary?" and she said "no, can someone please fill deagol in?" because she was about to leave.

I'm paraphrasing what was said because I don't have any chat logs, but I'm sure someone does. It might help us determine what were Maddy's thoughts on sketches = doodles = meaningless or not.

QtheC · Post by **QtheC** » Mon May 07, 2007 9:38 am

Aja wrote:
ElizKM86 wrote:I read that chat and I didnt see anything that said that the drawings are just doodles. I think you misread something.
From the chat:
[15:29] <maddison> That would make this second section
[15:29] <maddison> "Wiggins Quote c. 1860 a response
[15:29] <maddison> to...
[15:30] <maddison> Sketchy timbre neets clarity
[15:30] <aja> that what I think, yes
[15:30] <maddison> So Mr. Zipp is quoting a doodle?
[15:30] <aja> maybe
[15:30] <aja> that song has other quotes in it other than yankee doodle
[15:30] <maddison> I think that makes more sense than everything we've said
[15:31] <maddison> but he'd be talking about the sketches to respond to our letter. Right?
[15:31] <aja> yeah
[15:31] <edgyprophet> hmm its scetchy Smile
[15:31] <maddison> lol
[15:31] <edgyprophet> but maybe
[15:32] <maddison> aja - I think that you made a smart observation
[15:32] <maddison> It makes a lot of sense to me

That is as close to a confirmation from Maddy as you're gonna get. Take it as you will.

This may be off track, but if Mr. Zipp originated as Skipper Zipp from the same Dr. Seuss book (Oh Say Can You Say), maybe the "Mr. Zipp is quoting a doodle" means we should be looking at Skipper Zipp (a doodle himself)'s words from the book.

Wow, that was a confusing sentence.

ignatzmouse · Post by **ignatzmouse** » Mon May 07, 2007 9:48 am

QtheC wrote:This may be off track, but if Mr. Zipp originated as Skipper Zipp from the same Dr. Seuss book (Oh Say Can You Say), maybe the "Mr. Zipp is quoting a doodle" means we should be looking at Skipper Zipp (a doodle himself)'s words from the book.

Wow, that was a confusing sentence.

Well, the words are this post thanks to Lola, including:

Dr Suess wrote:Eat at Skipper Zipp’s
If you like to eat potato chips
And chew pork chops on clipper ships,
I suggest that you chew
A few chips and a chop
At Skipper Zipp’s Clipper Ship Chip Chop Shop.

And if your tongue
Is getting queasy,
Don’t give up.
The next one’s EASY!

oh and also:

Dr Suess wrote:“The storm starts
when the drops start dropping.
When the drops stop dropping
then the storm starts stopping.”

At least for the moment, the drops stopped dropping.

giddeanx · Post by **giddeanx** » Mon May 07, 2007 11:01 am

Maybe you are correct there is no meaning in the drawings themselves.

Maybe it is more important to know who did these drawings.

I asked Maddison what she thought about the drawings she said the looked like they were done by a child. Well maybe they were, maybe they are scans of a book zipps child drew in. The book was first published in 1979 which makes it a year younger than me so even I could have drawn these pictures when I was 6 or 7.

I say 6 or 7 for a reason, going with the idea that Zipps child did these drawings, this age range is very important. These are not the drawings of a 4 year old maybe not even a 5 year old. According to this site this type of drawing occurs in the 6 to 8 year old range. That would indicate that Mr.Zipp was with his child in this time frame. Considering this, it is very unlikely that Mr. Zipp's child is Bree. Leaving Jonas and Beast.

This requires a little more speculation. There are both water references and beast references in the pages. I do not know enough lg15 history to know more about beast and jonas's families. My only inclination would be that Jonas's father would have order ties and find himself in this situation. Where Beast would not.

I am leaning toward Zipp being Jonas's father.

Completely certain? No. Would I put a bet on it? Maybe a quarter.