OpAphid Resolution

[mincartaugh]

The internet is a funny thing. Posters come for a while and then they go. None of the three individuals/groups that are going were in a close relationship with DB&J. The closest was Tachyon and that was because Tachy invited Bree to visit her camp. Brother and Tachy are under no obligation to be explained out of the story. They just stop posting vids; time goes by; and somewhere down the line somebody says, "I wonder whatever happened to ________. I guess we just lost touch."

OpAphid is another matter, although the treatment doesn't have to be major. In any organization there are factions. If OpAphid was supposed to be the head of the order, s/he could have just stepped down/retired/been offed. Nobody on our side of the video fence will see the reason or the action. Gradually over time the actions of the Order will change to show the new regime. If OpAphid was supposed to be a division of the order (or the other way around) then it becomes a major shakeup. The people who are part of that organization should begin to act differently than they did in the past. They should become less organized for a time. Things could go really chaotic. It would give us an opportunity to see if the Watchers are really part of the Order or if they are in opposition to it. If played right, this could actually turn into a boon for the Creators.

[Lurker]

The internet is a funny thing. Posters come for a while and then they go. None of the three individuals/groups that are going were in a close relationship with DB&J. The closest was Tachyon and that was because Tachy invited Bree to visit her camp. Brother and Tachy are under no obligation to be explained out of the story. They just stop posting vids; time goes by; and somewhere down the line somebody says, "I wonder whatever happened to ________. I guess we just lost touch."

They weren't penpals or forum buddies. They were allies in a struggle against a conspiracy theorist's wet dream (or worst nightmare, depending on the conspiracy theorist; or both).

Especially given that Tachyon and Brother had been keeping their eye on B&D for months (well before Jonas even came into the picture) and had risked their own lives to get them away from the Order on one occasion - and since something the Order wanted to accomplish so badly would obviously be something those opposed to the Order would want to prevent - there really is no way to explain it as "They fell out of touch."

OpAphid is another matter, although the treatment doesn't have to be major. In any organization there are factions. If OpAphid was supposed to be the head of the order, s/he could have just stepped down/retired/been offed. Nobody on our side of the video fence will see the reason or the action. Gradually over time the actions of the Order will change to show the new regime. If OpAphid was supposed to be a division of the order (or the other way around) then it becomes a major shakeup.

OpAphid was the leader of just one division in the Order (the OpAPHID division).

The people who are part of that organization should begin to act differently than they did in the past. They should become less organized for a time. Things could go really chaotic. It would give us an opportunity to see if the Watchers are really part of the Order or if they are in opposition to it. If played right, this could actually turn into a boon for the Creators.

That's the thing, though: Everything we've seen before now tells us that the Watchers were under OpAphid's command. OpAPHID videos used the Watcher symbol (even Tachyon identified this symbol as belonging to the Watchers), Op described the people she dispatched to watch Tachyon as "babysitters," she said certain protocols had to be followed when dealing with Bree (when asked why they didn't just take her) and she said that those in her organization wore spiffy sunglasses (who does that sound like?).

What's more, the Watchers had plenty of opportunities in the past to identify themselves as on Bree's side - or at least not on the Order's side - if that were the case. Instead, they did nothing of the sort, and on the one occasion BD&J interacted with one to any great extent, the guy tried to punch Jonas (who had done a lot to take care of and protect Bree by then).

If the Watchers are to now be revealed as not working under Op, then it's a retcon. Maybe one the Creators felt was necessary (I would disagree, as I think a much more simple method that would have produced no inconsistencies could have been put into effect; see my post on the previous page for that), but a retcon nonetheless.


Obviously this means I disagree with the notion that this could be a boon to the Creators in any fashion. In fact - and not to discourage you guys, Miles, Greg, Mesh and Amanda - I think the goal will be to break even for a while.

Let's try to be optimistic about this whole thing, sure, mincartaugh. Let's not say the whole thing's dead, no. But let's not be afraid to call a spade a fucking spade.

[rupaZer0]

Lurker, I agree with you. I'm really annoyed by inconsistencies created by the Nikki B retcon. I wish the Creators the best of luck with cleaning up the storyline. It looks like a difficult task.

[mincartaugh]

What's more, the Watchers had plenty of opportunities in the past to identify themselves as on Bree's side - or at least not on the Order's side - if that were the case. Instead, they did nothing of the sort, and on the one occasion BD&J interacted with one to any great extent, the guy tried to punch Jonas (who had done a lot to take care of and protect Bree by then).

The guy saw a hopping mad guy charge up to him and try to throw his own punch. OF COURSE the guy tried to punch Jonas.

As for the Watchers, Have they ever (minus the swing and miss (above)) attempted harm to any of the group? I didn't mean to imply that the Watchers had nothing to do with the Order as much as I wanted to show that there was already conflict within their ranks. OpAphid keep mouthing these dire (if somewhat veiled) threats, but the Watchers who are ostensibly under her control do nothing but--well--watch. I still say they are an unknown quantity and regardless of past performance (or innuendo) they could be pulled out as a force to alter the paradigm significantly.

As for Tachyon and Brother: in my long life I have had many people near and dear to me loose touch; fall away; take a different path. It happens, and more often than we would like.

PS: and what the he** is a "retcon"?

[immortal1]

...
Especially given that Tachyon and Brother had been keeping their eye on B&D for months (well before Jonas even came into the picture) and had risked their own lives to get them away from the Order on one occasion - and since something the Order wanted to accomplish so badly would obviously be something those opposed to the Order would want to prevent - there really is no way to explain it as "They fell out of touch."

Sure there is ever hear of terms such as MIA? Assumed captured or killed? Missing and presumed dead? A set up to that would have been more neat such as saying Tachyon headed off on a dangerous mission. Of course given the nature of what she does- isn't that the natural assumption though anyway?

OpAphid was the leader of just one division in the Order (the OpAPHID division).

If you only watched videos and not kept up on profile updates or message interaction you would have not known this. As far as I am concerned it's never been clearly established. OpAphid is an organization of some sort, a person of unknown identity communicated on their behalf. Because the identity was unknown somewhere the representative became the character OpAphid. I think OpAphid by defintion of the acronym was basically a hit team. Their targets were Tachyon and Brother. Logically Tachyon and Brother "go away" then OpAphid goes away.

...
If the Watchers are to now be revealed as not working under Op, then it's a retcon. Maybe one the Creators felt was necessary (I would disagree, as I think a much more simple method that would have produced no inconsistencies could have been put into effect; see my post on the previous page for that), but a retcon nonetheless.
...

I don't have a tremendous problem with a retcon if it makes sense and especially if it explains away why huge plot elements and characters are gone. There's a subtle way to do it of course. This thing with the Watchers is confusing mostly because the Op vid used their symbol. Of course they could have done this to portray the Watchers as bad guys and cause Bree to mistrust them but what are they mutes? Why not just say they were here to protect her? Why do they dress like the Order? It would also mean Bree and Daniel have been on the run from the wrong people. Right now though, other than speculation whose side they are on is still an unknown.

Lurker, I agree with you. I'm really annoyed by inconsistencies created by the Nikki B retcon. I wish the Creators the best of luck with cleaning up the storyline. It looks like a difficult task.

I love Nikki B as much as the next guy but I can't take her account as fact unless the Creators confirm it. A "mystery informant" tells her things and to prove it gives her the address of the pharmaceutical warehouse? That's hardly privledged info- Daniel found it. Then one package she finds with a shipping label happens to be intended for the guy who kidnapped Bree? That's pretty convienent. What if that package with the shipping label was planted for her to find as was everything else in the room? Could Nikki B have been a pawn?

[codesinto_serapis]

Farewell old friend. See you on the Darkside...
"All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players"

[megs229]

Thank you Creators for clearing this up. Although I would personally appreciate a video in which we get a story of some sort saying that Tachy, Brother, and Oppy were killed or are no longer communicating with BD&J for some reason or another. Instead of just asking us to forget them or whatever it is you are doing. It would kind of bring the story back together a little and I'm sure clear up a bit of confusion that is going around the forums. But again, thanks for letting us know and not just leaving us without anything to go on.

[fuzzy_bunny85]

Agreed. We need some closure. People spent alot of time working out the whole OpApid story stuff. We have become emotionally attached to the characters. To just ignore them leaves open ended questions and unresolved issues.

[megs229]

Agreed. We need some closure. People spent alot of time working out the whole OpApid story stuff. We have become emotionally attached to the characters. To just ignore them leaves open ended questions and unresolved issues.

You completely understand what I was trying to say!

[Killthesmiley]

Farewell old friend. See you on the Darkside...
"All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players"

[Lurker]

The guy saw a hopping mad guy charge up to him and try to throw his own punch. OF COURSE the guy tried to punch Jonas.

That's not quite how it went down. I'd agree with you if he hadn't let Jonas walk up to him, mouth off for a few seconds, given him time to take a punch, grab the fist and then move to throw his own - but not spent any of that time saying "Whoa, hold up. I'm not here to make trouble."

As for the Watchers, Have they ever (minus the swing and miss (above)) attempted harm to any of the group? I didn't mean to imply that the Watchers had nothing to do with the Order as much as I wanted to show that there was already conflict within their ranks. OpAphid keep mouthing these dire (if somewhat veiled) threats, but the Watchers who are ostensibly under her control do nothing but--well--watch. I still say they are an unknown quantity and regardless of past performance (or innuendo) they could be pulled out as a force to alter the paradigm significantly.

That's fair enough, I suppose. It just doesn't really seem to fit how they're being used to alter the paradigm (nor did OpAphid sending someone to kidnap Bree).

As for Tachyon and Brother: in my long life I have had many people near and dear to me loose touch; fall away; take a different path. It happens, and more often than we would like.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that those situations were not in any way comparable with this one. I imagine most of us have had people on the internet or offline fall out of touch - but not in a situation like this one.

It's a really poor explanation. It just doesn't work.

PS: and what the he** is a "retcon"?

It's short for "retroactive continuity." It means changing something in a storyline after the fact. It's often done to accomodate a development that is irreconcilable with previously existing elements, but which a writer wants to make nonetheless. It's especially done in comics a lot (especially by Marvel).

Sure there is ever hear of terms such as MIA? Assumed captured or killed? Missing and presumed dead?

I think we both know that's not what mincartaugh's post was suggesting. He was talking in casual terms - as though they were any one of us, who just comes here and could vanish at any time.

I never said them being MIA was a problem in and of itself. In fact, I even said having Bree say something like "I can't reach Tachyon. She doesn't respond" would have been infinitely better than "I suddenly have no way of contacting Tachyon. Please forget that I did have that a couple of weeks ago."

At the very least terminology like "MIA" suggests that something plausible actually happened. "Posters come for a while and then they go" and "I guess we just lost touch" doesn't.

If you only watched videos and not kept up on profile updates or message interaction you would have not known this. As far as I am concerned it's never been clearly established. OpAphid is an organization of some sort, a person of unknown identity communicated on their behalf. Because the identity was unknown somewhere the representative became the character OpAphid.

I would say it was clearly established quite well. The very way she spoke showed that she had authority over those in her organization - and she had her own personal assistants and her own bodyguards.

As far as why she became the character known as "OpAphid," she signed all of her messages that way (with lower case letters, whereas we tended to associate capitals of everything but "p" with the group as a whole, as it was an acronym). If she'd signed them another way, I'm sure we would have called her something else.

I think OpAphid by defintion of the acronym was basically a hit team. Their targets were Tachyon and Brother. Logically Tachyon and Brother "go away" then OpAphid goes away.

That doesn't make sense. It was well established that OpAPHID had existed as a division of the Order for a good while (at the least since last February) - and they even had their own facilities (one of which Tachyon broke into; heck, these guys had their own - albeit depleted - stock of P. Monkey puppets). It also wouldn't make sense that they'd just be organized to deal with Brother and Tachyon, as the two of them were only two members of another organization.

What's more, OpAPHID made it clear that BD&J were high on their radar. They even completely ignored Tachyon for a while when they were hunting down Jonas' place. Heck, OpAphid even told Bree to do the ceremony before Tachyon even stole anything from them.

And, of course, that suggestion doesn't even address the problems with the idea that Tachyon and Brother would just go away in the first place.


I understand that you guys are trying to smooth over the potholes we have here, but they're there. Let's just call that spade what it is.

I don't have a tremendous problem with a retcon if it makes sense and especially if it explains away why huge plot elements and characters are gone. There's a subtle way to do it of course. This thing with the Watchers is confusing mostly because the Op vid used their symbol. Of course they could have done this to portray the Watchers as bad guys and cause Bree to mistrust them but what are they mutes? Why not just say they were here to protect her? Why do they dress like the Order?

Exactly. It doesn't fit at all. While I personally dislike retcons in principle alone, in this case there's more reason to dislike them.

love Nikki B as much as the next guy but I can't take her account as fact unless the Creators confirm it. A "mystery informant" tells her things and to prove it gives her the address of the pharmaceutical warehouse? That's hardly privledged info- Daniel found it. Then one package she finds with a shipping label happens to be intended for the guy who kidnapped Bree? That's pretty convienent. What if that package with the shipping label was planted for her to find as was everything else in the room? Could Nikki B have been a pawn?

I suppose so. But a pawn of who and for what?



In case this discussion goes further and anyone becomes confused, I'd like to say now that I'm not trying to make the Creators feel bad about the inconsistencies. I'm just trying to point out that they're there.

I know we'd like to be able to find a way to smooth them out, but I really don't think we can. At least the fans can't. Things will just have to go from here with the good and the bad.

[milowent]

Although I would personally appreciate a video in which we get a story of some sort saying that Tachy, Brother, and Oppy were killed or are no longer communicating with BD&J for some reason or another.

[Renegade]

+1000 points for the Simpsons reference

PS: and what the he** is a "retcon"?

Retroactive continuity

Retroactive continuity or retcon is the adding of new information to "historical" material, or deliberately changing previously established facts in a work of serial fiction. The change itself is referred to as a "retcon", and the act of writing and publishing a retcon is called "retconning". Retconning can be done either on-purpose, or accidentally, wherein a break in continuity is not noticed until later and is then 'blessed' by later writers or editors.

[immortal1]

I would say it was clearly established quite well. The very way she spoke showed that she had authority over those in her organization - and she had her own personal assistants and her own bodyguards.

As far as why she became the character known as "OpAphid," she signed all of her messages that way (with lower case letters, whereas we tended to associate capitals of everything but "p" with the group as a whole, as it was an acronym). If she'd signed them another way, I'm sure we would have called her something else.

When did she ever speak in a video? If you never played the ARG and all you saw were the OpAphid vids as posted as vid comments on this site or vid responses on lg15 YT account then all you know of OpAphid is what we learned from Gemma.

I think OpAphid by defintion of the acronym was basically a hit team. Their targets were Tachyon and Brother. Logically Tachyon and Brother "go away" then OpAphid goes away.

That doesn't make sense. It was well established that OpAPHID had existed as a division of the Order for a good while (at the least since last February) - and they even had their own facilities (one of which Tachyon broke into; heck, these guys had their own - albeit depleted - stock of P. Monkey puppets). It also wouldn't make sense that they'd just be organized to deal with Brother and Tachyon, as the two of them were only two members of another organization.

What's more, OpAPHID made it clear that BD&J were high on their radar. They even completely ignored Tachyon for a while when they were hunting down Jonas' place. Heck, OpAphid even told Bree to do the ceremony before Tachyon even stole anything from them.

And, of course, that suggestion doesn't even address the problems with the idea that Tachyon and Brother would just go away in the first place.

I understand that you guys are trying to smooth over the potholes we have here, but they're there. Let's just call that spade what it is.

The whole thing with facilities was established in game. A hit squad could still be a division of the Order. They could have been using Bree and Co. to lure Tachyon into action. Let's for arguement sake say OpAphid was a hit squad tasked with eliminating Tachyon and Brother, were successful and then moved on to their next targets whoever they may be. That would explain the disappearance of Tachyon, Brother and OpAphid.

Here's something to consider, if a non compete wasn't signed and the PM retains the rights to the characters it may not be for the Creators to say what happened to the characters.

I suppose so. But a pawn of who and for what?

I'd say that there is even a possibility for something other than the obvious is a good thing.

In case this discussion goes further and anyone becomes confused, I'd like to say now that I'm not trying to make the Creators feel bad about the inconsistencies. I'm just trying to point out that they're there.

I know we'd like to be able to find a way to smooth them out, but I really don't think we can. At least the fans can't. Things will just have to go from here with the good and the bad.

We can't because the exit of these characters wasn't planned. It's more damage control more than anything else.

[rodrigogar]

Also, there are lots of ARGs that are not canon: Facility J, Guillotine Calamity, Hymn of One and Anti-Hymn of One. We all thought "Hymn of One" was canon. They are "stand alones" separate from the series. You stated that there would not be any "stand alone" ARGs. I'm confused about whether any of the fanfic from these groups will be included or integrated within LG-15 on occasion, to encourage fan interaction.

Thanks.

the page hymnofone.com belongs to the lg15 site/creators or whatever you wanna call it.

Domain Name: HYMNOFONE.COM
Registrar: GO DADDY SOFTWARE, INC.
Whois Server: whois.godaddy.com
Referral URL: http://registrar.godaddy.com
Name Server: NS1.LONELYGIRL15.COM
Name Server: NS2.LONELYGIRL15.COM
Status: clientDeleteProhibited
Status: clientRenewProhibited
Status: clientTransferProhibited
Status: clientUpdateProhibited
Updated Date: 01-apr-2007
Creation Date: 31-mar-2007
Expiration Date: 31-mar-2009