The New Fan Fic Section

[immortal1]

(Directory) Facilty J Thread Archive Listing

Didn't even take a half hour to do. The info was already compiled at LGPedia. Now IMO this works even better than a unique section because it's categorized. I mean there it is all in one place.

[Luminous]

Maintaining these LGpedia sites is very labor intensive, so far, I have been the primary person who is maintaining the Facility J site, and I can tell you it's a HUGE amount of work. And everytime the Facility J threads get moved around by the moderators, I have to go and check all the links, repairing any that get broken.

It really is a huge amount of work to do anything like this, and I'm sure it's appreciated! In our defense, this is the first time that the threads have been moved/reorganized, and it was intended to keep all fanfic organized.

And whenever a new video comes out, the new procedure is to start it in new releases, then move it over to indepth discussion. That is a move that I will have to keep track of on LGpedia. Again, that is not what the LGpedia application is designed for. Forum software is designed to organize discussions in such a way that they can be easily accessed and followed. What part of the users saying this new fanfic organization is not working for the ARG's do you not understand?

This new organization is not keeping the ARG fanfic organized. It is disorganizing it. The LGpedia should not be asked to compensate for what should be happening on the forum and isn't. Because the LGpedia is not intended to track forum threads it is extremely labor intensive. I shouldn't even have to input the forum threads on the LGpedia page. I should simply have one link from the LGpedia to the Facility J section of the forum. I should not have to link every single discussion thread, make sure they are in order, make sure the active threads are at the top of the LGpedia, then move them to the bottom when they are no longer active, move them to the top when they become active again, and check them all the time to make sure they are working. The current fanfic architecture condems every ARG that wants to maintain it's following to follow the LGpedia procedure I just described. Plain and simple. IT'S NOT WORKABLE! Forum software does all of these procedures AUTOMATICALLY! It's designed to.

'scuse me for yelling, but I'm really frustrated.

As the ARG picks up, this may be more work than myself and other Facility J volunteers can keep up with. It's the same problem for all the other ARGs. With the current architecture of the Fan Fic section, I think it will be nearly impossible for existing ARGs to attract new players, or for new ARG's to get off the ground at all.

Traffic in the HSA forum had dropped significantly, and the PM even suggested we combine it, as the focus had shifted to new videos. When CiW was broken out into one (and then several) areas of its own, it had many times the traffic and discussion as any other area (except, perhaps, the OpAphid areas).

Possibly OpAphid was able to generate more traffic because it's threads were kept in tact in one section of the forum, and it was easier to follow with the game because of this? OpAphid was a very fast paced game. It would have been impossible to keep up with it in the format that currently exists.

The suggestion of separating ARGs out could be more confusing. For example, is HSA an ARG? The organizer of HSA didn't believe so. Are there other ARGs? Perhaps a few that have significantly less traffic.

For me, there is no confusion about this at all. Yes. HSA is an ARG. There are puzzles and clues. I play HSA, and I have slowed down following it, because with this new organization, I have my hands full keeping up with Facility J. This has limited my ability to follow other ARGs I would love to be involved in. I would put HSA in the "New Release Section", or possibly rename it "General ARGs" until the participation pics up again. If you have been following HSA, Ms. Kelly has been out of her office for awhile, so the game has been on somewhat of a hiatus. Probably the biggest reason the participation has slumped. I'm sure as soon as Ms. Kelly is done resting, it will pick up again. She is putting out quality work, and she has a loyal following. You have just heard from three of us who play the game - Sparky, Fat Lady, and myself, all saying it would be much better if all the HSA threads were consolidated. It's impossible to catch up to speed on it as it is currently "disorganized."

Our goal is not to add significantly to the overall site. We would rather have a few forums in regular use than many forums that get little use. In the previous format, we had one forum that got all the discussion and two (cassie and HSA) that got little). Now I see more significant discussion in all four areas...

Adding a section for ARGs is not a major overhaul of the site. It would not even undo all the work you have just done, which I think actually works quite well for non ARG fanfic. An ARG section would be a relativily simple addition to what is already existing. And I would be willing to bet that if it existed, traffic to all the ARGs would pick up substantially. It would also eliminate the problem of fanfic that is more geared towards storytelling being buried under the weight of the ARG threads when there is a puzzle in action that is generating several hot topic threads.

Seriously, the biggest issue I've heard from users so far is that expressed by sparky. Instead of one forum, there's now two. But by having two forums for a discussion of HSA or Facility J or others, we now feel that other fan fiction is given an equal footing.

I'm not even sure how to respond to this comment - It's as if you haven't read this thread or heard anything any of us have said.

[Broken Kid]

And whenever a new video comes out, the new procedure is to start it in new releases, then move it over to indepth discussion. That is a move that I will have to keep track of on LGpedia. ... What part of the users saying this new fanfic organization is not working for the ARG's do you not understand?

I'm sorry you're frustrated, Luminous. Please let's stay civil though. I'd be happy to discuss this in more detail with you in PM. But I do want to clear up a few things...

We aren't going to move any more threads. New Releases is intended for discussing the video itself. Those threads will remain there. The In-Depth Discussion area is for diving into puzzles and questions and such. Those threads will remain there and are organized by title.

Seriously, the biggest issue I've heard from users so far is that expressed by sparky. Instead of one forum, there's now two. But by having two forums for a discussion of HSA or Facility J or others, we now feel that other fan fiction is given an equal footing.

I'm not even sure how to respond to this comment - It's as if you haven't read this thread or heard anything any of us have said.

My comment was in reference to all of the feedback I've heard, not just that in this thread. I'm sorry if you feel you're not being heard.

I do appreciate all the feedback and the very strong feelings about this. We want fan fiction to be a very important part of the LG15 forums. As we pointed out, this is a new reorganization (it hasn't even been a week yet), and we can make tweaks to this organization if needed.

[sparkybennett]

Basically, what this re-vamp of the forum has done, at least in my case, is make me less likely and able to participate in anything outside the main LG15 storyline.

Yes, me too.

The Forum and the LGPedia each has their own purpose. Sure if HSA or Facility J each had their own Forum section it would be easier but then why have an LGPedia?

I had never thought to check the LGPedia. I will try to refer to it.
But I never considered the LGPedia as any sort of concrete source of information. This is due to the fact that it can be modified by anyone. I have read some ridiculous things in the LGPedia, so my own perception of it is a source of humor, not a resource.

Are there any suggestions other than give XYZ their own section? If you think it would help if the HSA LGPedia entry had a Forum Discussion Archive section like Facilty J's, let's discuss that. Or maybe a sticky in the In Depth section that is basically a directory of links similar to the Facility J Forum Discussion Archive Section? Maybe a Facilty J Directory sticky in both the New Releases and In Depth section that has links to all threads in both sections? And the same for HSA?

I think a sticky with links in the in depth discussion link as you suggested would be helpful. I like that idea.

[ShardinsKitten]

We aren't going to move any more threads. New Releases is intended for discussing the video itself. Those threads will remain there. The In-Depth Discussion area is for diving into puzzles and questions and such. Those threads will remain there and are organized by title.

Seriously, the biggest issue I've heard from users so far is that expressed by sparky. Instead of one forum, there's now two. But by having two forums for a discussion of HSA or Facility J or others, we now feel that other fan fiction is given an equal footing.

I'm not even sure how to respond to this comment - It's as if you haven't read this thread or heard anything any of us have said.

My comment was in reference to all of the feedback I've heard, not just that in this thread. I'm sorry if you feel you're not being heard.

I do appreciate all the feedback and the very strong feelings about this. We want fan fiction to be a very important part of the LG15 forums. As we pointed out, this is a new reorganization (it hasn't even been a week yet), and we can make tweaks to this organization if needed.

Firstly I had given up on this thread, I didn't know it was still being talked about, considering we are never listened to anyways.

BK i don't have to disagree with you. If you at all felt (or anyone else in control) that the fan fiction was important to LG15, you would listen when we sit here and tell you that the new forum section is not working. I wont even go into the fan fiction section anymore. It's horrible.

That is all.

[ShardinsKitten]

The problem with the LGPedia, is that it can be very confusing to some (me included). During OpAphid and CiW, I relied on summary and catch up threads, because the LGPedia can be very difficult to navigate, and has so much content in one place, its hard to sort through it all.

To me when we are talking specifically about looking at the history of something we are talking about the LGPedia. If it doesn't work we should be discussing how to make it work rather than how the forum can compensate. Don't get me wrong I think for the most part the LGPedia works. I also think the new Fan Creation organization for the most part works. Organization and structure can't solve every problem.

Thats also why I wrote summary threads whenever I fully understood something.

But wasn't that just a band-aid? Maybe if we had figured out a way to make the LGPedia work for OpAphid we could have applied that to Facility J and HSA. Just like I suggested stickied directory threads- I'm confident that would solve the problem but a year from now we could have who knows how many stickied directory threads.

This is a completely different topic... but I just wanted to say, the LGpedia DOES work. However it is A LOT of work, most of us DON"T have that time to put into it to keep it up. I know I don't. So if your so gungho about it, maybe you should do all the LGpedia pages. Lastly likes someone said the LGpedia can be far from reliable as ANYONE can change it.

I'm with FatLady too, only I have been involved in FacilityJ and I'm ready to just give it up, cuz now not only are the puzzles difficult but keep up is even more difficult.

[Broken Kid]

BK i don't have to disagree with you. If you at all felt (or anyone else in control) that the fan fiction was important to LG15, you would listen when we sit here and tell you that the new forum section is not working. I wont even go into the fan fiction section anymore. It's horrible.

That is all.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I've talked with a lot of folks (beyond just those who post here), and all agreed that the old structure did not work. The new structure is far superior to that. It appears the biggest problems people have are that a) now they have to look in two threads instead of one, and b) Facility J doesn't have its own forum. I don't see that first issue as a problem, and as I noted, if Facility J continues to grow, we will address the issue of whether it deserves its own forum.

I'm sorry the small but very vocal group that posted here are so unhappy, but we haven't heard many serious recommendations beyond giving everything its own forum (which we can't do). The new structure seems to be quite successful in the number of people using them and the productive way they're organized. I'm sorry folks haven't given it a chance.

[Luminous]

Facility J doesn't have its own forum. I don't see that first issue as a problem, and as I noted, if Facility J continues to grow, we will address the issue of whether it deserves its own forum.

This change affects all the ARGs. Not just Facility J. This structure makes it pretty much impossible to run an ARG. The only conclusion I can draw from this is that there is a deliberate effort in the works to squelch the ARGs.

The point we have made over and over, and I will make it once again, is that under this structure, it is highly likely that there will be no Facility J. I really don't see how it is possible for it to grow with the current arrangement. The changes we are requesting is what is needed to facilitate the growth, not only of Facility J, but of the entire fanfic ARG genre.

[trainer101]

Hi everyone, it's just me Trainer, your loyal Facility J fan. I just want to jump in here and point out a couple of things.

1. The old format definitely did not work for the 'J team', nor did it work well for other forms of storytelling or ARGs. In our attempts to accommodate as many fans as possible, we developed this new structure.

2. The section titled "In-Depth Discussion - Analyze videos, discuss puzzles and clues, and share research into storylines" IS the ARG section. That's what it's intended for.

3. I've suggested this before and I'll reiterate it here. For ARG videos, the 'New Releases' section should be used to announce the video only - link from that post to the appropriate discussion so everyone can stay on the same page. The idea is to draw more potential players into the discussion of the games.

4. I will maintain and update the Facility J sticky created by immortal1 to make the game threads easy to find. If someone wants to volunteer to create a similar post for HSA, that would be great. Other ARGs can do the same if/when they develop a following.

This is clearly a better solution than what we had. BK has already stated that he would reconsider a separate section if Facility J warrants it. As much as I and a group of us enjoy "Facility J", it will only warrant a section when and if, a significant number of forum members join the game. Recruit Players, grow the game, and then revisit the need for a Facility J section.

Trainer

[ShardinsKitten]

Having a video thread in 2 sections for the SAME video is asinine.

It would be much better if the "In depth" section was just the ARG section and everything for any ARG was put in there, rather then starting a video thread in one section just to move it to another section. How crazy is that?? That has to be one of the worst suggestions I've heard around here.


Oh and trainer, facility j wont get a bigger following with this system on the forum. Even someone on this thread said she wont be able to join any fan fic arg because everything is all over the place. She's not going to be the only one. I'm ready to walk away, and I have given it a chance. I know I'm not the only one that is ready to walk away or that is stepping back a lot from the ARG.

[immortal1]

4. I will maintain and update the Facility J sticky created by immortal1 to make the game threads easy to find. If someone wants to volunteer to create a similar post for HSA, that would be great. Other ARGs can do the same if/when they develop a following.

Trainer why don't you go ahead and quote the post, copy and paste it, delete that thread and repost it under your account. I don't follow Facility J. I just was trying to help out.

Functionally using the thread directory works as if the threads were all in the same section. In fact, it's probably better because they are categorized and sorted by date. If all the threads were in the same section they would move up and down the list according to the date of the last post. I noticed the Facility J has a cleaner user more user friendly look to it.

Last week some people were up and arms about how things would work and the sky didn't fall. Let's put these new changes into practice for a week and see how it goes.

[TOSG]

Last week some people were up and arms about how things would work and the sky didn't fall.

Come on, don't put words in our mouths. None of us were saying that it was the end of the world; we were simply saying that the current design is inferior to the previous design, and vastly inferior to some other things that we proposed. I believed that then, and I stand by it now.

[Luminous]

Functionally using the thread directory works as if the threads were all in the same section.

Actually, it doesn't. I will repeat myself, with a thread directory, someone has to manually create what would be automatically generated by the forum. IMO, it's ridiculous to require the ARGs to compensate manually for poor forum organization.

In fact, it's probably better because they are categorized and sorted by date. If all the threads were in the same section they would move up and down the list according to the date of the last post.

Actually, again, no. It is far better to have the links move up an down according to where the active conversation is. Otherwise you have to go searching through all the links to figure out what the hot topic is. It is not always chronological. Many times older threads become reactivated as new information is revealed. In a forum, when this happens the link will automatically float to the top. In manual thread organization, someone must actually move it, which is what I have been doing in the Jpedia since it's existence. This requires quite a bit of attention that could be better spent making entries to the LGpedia that are more substantive.

I noticed the Facility J has a cleaner user more user friendly look to it.

If you note the discussion thread on the back of the main page, you will notice these are changes that have been in the works for quite some time. What people who are not involved in editing the LGpedia don't seem to understand, is that it is a considerable amount of work that unfolds over time. It doesn't happen overnight. The good thing that is occuring out of this problem with the fanfic reordering, is that our little group of players are banding together to protect our game from this threat to its demise.

Last week some people were up and arms about how things would work and the sky didn't fall. Let's put these new changes into practice for a week and see how it goes.

In case you hadn't noticed, we're still up in arms.

[immortal1]

Last week some people were up and arms about how things would work and the sky didn't fall.

Come on, don't put words in our mouths. None of us were saying that it was the end of the world; we were simply saying that the current design is inferior to the previous design, and vastly inferior to some other things that we proposed. I believed that then, and I stand by it now.

There sure was a lot of doom and gloom. People were concerned about needing to look at 5 different forums to keep up whatever vids they had been following and that just wasn't the case. "Haphazardly strewn" wasn't it how you described it? No current fan creations are being discussed in the In Development section, it's functioning as intended. Same with the FanFic Lobby which already has a number of great contributions. The archive was unlocked but no one has resurrected any old threads. The New Releases works just fine for everything except apparently Facility J. No one fan creation has been buried as was feared. The In Depth area needed some stickies and I think it will be fine moving foward.

Everyone's first impulse was to change the structure instead of working within the structure and giving it a chance. As I said out of all the concerns pretty much the only one that remained was the ability of new people to catch up on fan ARG. You're entitled to you opinion but I'll go by what I see and that for the majority of people effected, it's an improvement and has been well received.

[Luminous]

Last week some people were up and arms about how things would work and the sky didn't fall.

Come on, don't put words in our mouths. None of us were saying that it was the end of the world; we were simply saying that the current design is inferior to the previous design, and vastly inferior to some other things that we proposed. I believed that then, and I stand by it now.

There sure was a lot of doom and gloom. People were concerned about needing to look at 5 different forums to keep up whatever vids they had been following and that just wasn't the case. "Haphazardly strewn" wasn't it how you described it? No current fan creations are being discussed in the In Development section, it's functioning as intended. Same with the FanFic Lobby which already has a number of great contributions. The archive was unlocked but no one has resurrected any old threads. The New Releases works just fine for everything except apparently Facility J. No one fan creation has been buried as was feared. The In Depth area needed some stickies and I think it will be fine moving foward.

Everyone's first impulse was to change the structure instead of working within the structure and giving it a chance. As I said out of all the concerns pretty much the only one that remained was the ability of new people to catch up on fan ARG. You're entitled to you opinion but I'll go by what I see and that for the majority of people effected, it's an improvement and has been well received.

There hasn't been an active puzzle running in any of the ARGs since the change has been made, so this is hardly an accurate assessment. If you are familiar with ARGs, you will know that puzzles go in waves. There are periods of intensive activity, and periods of almost no activity.

Because we are between puzzles, we are currently in a lull. We are soon to be receiving a new puzzle, and will be re-entering a period of intense activity. We'll see how that goes, but it doesn't change the fact that under the current arrangement, the thread organization has to be manually maintained