[Update] Bring Your Answers!

toadlguy · Post by **toadlguy** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:59 pm

Nora Volkova wrote:The picture from Item Three seems to be a broken link -- did anyone save it?

As a JPG: http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m288 ... ismean.jpg

fact

So we have:

1. belief ?
2. truth
3. fact
4. wisdom ?

Maybe?

sparkybennett · Post by **sparkybennett** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:15 pm

This is off track a little, but still funny,

The Principle of Bullsh**

http://www.churchofreality.org/wisdom/t ... lshit.html
it is amazing the stuff we are learning isn't it?

Nora Volkova · Post by **Nora Volkova** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:16 pm

Exactly what I'm thinking. And I think we have a guest lecturer/philosophy student coming in later on the thread to sort of put some of this in layman's terms for us.

sparkybennett · Post by **sparkybennett** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:19 pm

OKay
what about this

1. phenomenological reality
2. Truth
3. Fact
4. Axiom

see the link to reality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality

toadlguy · Post by **toadlguy** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:24 pm

Nora Volkova wrote:Exactly what I'm thinking. And I think we have a guest lecturer/philosophy student coming in later on the thread to sort of put some of this in layman's terms for us.

Bullsh*t sounds like laymen's terms.

Sheikh Gomelez · Post by **Sheikh Gomelez** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:26 pm

Depends on whether the patty in question is real or figurative.

toadlguy · Post by **toadlguy** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:32 pm

sparkybennett wrote:OKay
what about this

1. phenomenological reality
2. Truth
3. Fact
4. Axiom

see the link to reality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality

By George - I think you've got it (But 4 is really a paragraph that includes an axiom - not an example of one)

Now can you phrase that in the form of a Question.

OK - I'll do it: What is Reality?

Now all we need to find is Alternate and Game.

Sheikh Gomelez · Post by **Sheikh Gomelez** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:53 pm

toadlguy wrote:
sparkybennett wrote:OKay
what about this

1. phenomenological reality
2. Truth
3. Fact
4. Axiom

see the link to reality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality
By George - I think you've got it (But 4 is really a paragraph that includes an axiom - not an example of one)

Now can you phrase that in the form of a Question.

OK - I'll do it: What is Reality?

Now all we need to find is Alternate and Game.

Or their cousins, M. Bait and M. Switch.

DontHaveAClue · Post by **DontHaveAClue** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:15 am

sparkybennett wrote:OKay
what about this

1. phenomenological reality
2. Truth
3. Fact
4. Axiom

I think that's it. Good job!

On another note. Ms Kelly wrote down a list of books she liked when she was young and in school. The last entry is "C'est arrivé près de chez vous, Rémy Belvaux (dir.) ". This is a belgian movie about a serial killer. Funny movie but very dark sense of humor. Not MsKelly l-like at all!

The title in the US was "Man Bites Dog, A killer comedy."

Found on IMDb about this movie:

"Benoit is an interesting character, he seems to know a little about everything: Music, the arts, architecture, and serial killing. He's a busy guy, and he has his own camera crew along to document his doings. This is an incredibly off-the-wall and deadpan look at what could happen had a serial killer decided to take a camera crew with him on his excursions. Now on the surface Benoit is well rounded, he has a great relationship with his mom, his grandmother & grandfather, and he plays piano, talks philosophy and architecture with gusto, and then he dresses up like a mailman and kills pensioners for their checks. Among other things. This is mostly done in a deadpan style, which makes it even better, I mean why get too worked up about snuffing a few people here and there? This is NOT the film for you if you're easily offended and disgusted, because guaranteed you will be. If you enjoy satire of the darkest kind though, you will love this, most likely."

That should give you an idea....

DontHaveAClue · Post by **DontHaveAClue** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:25 am

As for:

The Book of Counted Sorrows From Wikipedia,

The Book of Counted Sorrows was a previously nonexistent book "quoted" in many of Dean Koontz's books.

For many years Koontz fans everywhere searched for this elusive book. Many librarians were frustrated in their attempts to locate it because it did not exist. This was confirmed by a librarian from Cedar Rapids Public Library who corresponded with Mr. Koontz regarding this mysterious book. Koontz himself stated that he received up to 3,000 letters per year inquiring about it. He includes a history of the poems in the beginning of the book, followed by the poems, some having never been in any of his books.

In a letter dated 8-10-92, Mr. Koontz stated:

"Actually, there is no such book. I made it up. The way you made up footnote sources for fabricated facts in high-school English reports. Oh, come on, yes, you did. Sometimes, when I need a bit of verse to convey some of the underlying themes of a section of a novel, I can't find anything applicable, so I write my own and attribute it to this imaginary tome. I figured readers would eventually realize THE BOOK OF COUNTED SORROWS was my own invention, and I never expected that one day librarians and booksellers would be writing from all over the country, asking for help in tracking down this rare and mysterious volume!"

Mr. Koontz went on to say that he would publish such a book in a few years when he has enough verses to fill a volume. According to Shannon Presley of Harvest Books, "Koontz himself wrote the poems, attributed to a Stephen Crane...you can find the collected poems at Veinotte at http://www.veinotte.com/koontz/sorrows.htm".

In the beginning of a very few books (such as Odd Thomas), he quotes from The Book of Counted Joys.

Creation

In 2003 the book was published in an e-book format offered exclusively through Barnes & Noble. (This version is no longer available for purchase.) Later that year Charnel House published two limited editions of the book: a 1,250 -copy numbered edition and a 26-copy lettered edition. Both editions quickly sold out from the publisher but can be periodically found in the collector's market at prices far in excess of the issue price of $100. As of December 2005, the Abebooks online book marketplace had a copy of the numbered edition listed for sale at $1,760 US.

sparkybennett · Post by **sparkybennett** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 8:57 am

Ms Kelley is quite entertaining isn't she?
Can't wait to get to know her better!

Nora Volkova · Post by **Nora Volkova** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:46 am

Yes, the Book of Counted Sorrows is very much like the proto-mythical Necronomicon in this regard. Both served as fictional references within horror series, but fan legend about them grew so enthusiatic that "actual" documents were eventually written.

It's actually a similar process to the creation of the Zohar. That's a mystical Jewish document which was probably written in the 1200s (? don't have my notes at hand), but its probable author claimed that it was a much older document. Apparently someone took the trouble to mock up "ancient" documents to back that up -- the Christians weren't the only people trafficking in fake religious artifacts.

Also a similar situation with the Documents Secrets which "established" the "authenticity" of the Priory of Sion.

Also a similar situation with the early pre-publication dissemination of elements of the novel House of Leaves. I'm still waiting for some clever fans to post a really good "Five and a Half Minute Hallway" to YouTube.

What is truth? Is truth a construct? Are truth and reality the same thing? How would we know? Can the fictional and the true be the same thing?

DontHaveAClue · Post by **DontHaveAClue** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:55 am

Yes, it all fits in a discussion about Truth and truth being a mind construction, truth vs reality etc.... I wonder where this is going...

taiya · Post by **taiya** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:10 am

Wow I go away for awhile and it's all solved! Congrats.

I really like the truth vs reality aspect and the Jara Cimrman articles were fascinating. I wonder if someone could convincingly argue that a made up person could be considered real under certain conditions. Maybe with something like a turing test?

DontHaveAClue · Post by **DontHaveAClue** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:12 am

taiya wrote:Wow I go away for awhile and it's all solved! Congrats.

I really like the truth vs reality aspect and the Jara Cimrman articles were fascinating. I wonder if someone could convincingly argue that a made up person could be considered real under certain conditions. Maybe with something like a turing test?

Fakes are everywhere! Just look around....