TravelerJ19 - "Catalyst (You Rang?)" [03/27/2007]

deagol · Post by **deagol** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:56 pm

This morning I sent this to TravelerJ19:

He just replied:

Seems like we somehow need to transform the DNA sequence so that 6 and 12 work as usual... I have no idea how, but apparently he's pointing at the songs.

ignatzmouse · Post by **ignatzmouse** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:09 pm

TOSG wrote:Good analysis, but I should note that "U" in RNA is functionally eqivalent to "T" in DNA. You're looking at a table of RNA codons, but the sequence that we have been given is DNA.

Yes, I just realized that myself. D'oh! I edited the previous message to say that for "the usual" decoding technique to work we'd need to shuffle the letters, which I'm not sure is likely.

lg15panda · Post by **lg15panda** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:23 pm

deagol wrote:Seems like we somehow need to transform the DNA sequence so that 6 and 12 work as usual... I have no idea how, but apparently he's pointing at the songs.

Sorry I don't have time to give a lot of input into this puzzle, it sure looks like fun!

I'll throw out an idea that I had when I was looking at deagol's post:
12 = 8 in base 6 = 10 in octal (base 8).
I wonder if that helps at all?

Good luck you guys!

TOSG · Post by **TOSG** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:42 pm

Three observations:

1) It's interesting that TJ19 specified "12(-0)," rather than just "12" alone.

2) Looking at the sequence:

IPIIIIIOchreIDII

and the decoding sequence:
6(-a) 6(-b) 6(-a) 12(-c) 6(-a) 12(-c) 6(-a) 12(-0) 6(-a) 6(-d) 6(-a) 12(-c)

All of the Isoleucines match to a 6(-a) or a 12(-c); the only three unique amino acids (Proline, Ochre, Aspartic Acid) correspond to the only unique decoding values ( 6(-b), 12(-0), and 6(-d) )

3) Every other entry in the decoding sequence is "6(-a)" (the first, the third, the fifth, etc...)

I'm not sure what to make of that, but I don't think it's a coincidence.

voyboy · Post by **voyboy** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:42 pm

IM not a a part of any of the ARG stuff but Im here to fink on Musique...she said that if she can go to one of the drops she will go and isnt worried about going alone...You guys dont let her. She's crazy.
After all look at what just happened to Bree and DB and Jonas...you maybe captured by R2D2 as well!

janesalteredstates · Post by **janesalteredstates** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:59 pm

deagol wrote:I tried dividing those numbers by 6.

Code: Select all

1(-3) 1(-1) 1(-3) 2(-8) 1(-3) 2(-8) 1(-3) 2(-0) 1(-3) 1(-2) 1(-3) 2(-8)

Isoleucine_Proline_Isoleucine_Isoleucine_Isoleucine...Aspartic_acid_Isoleucine_Isoleucine
1          1       1           2         1         ...1             1           2
IPISISICIAIS
fOfKfKfCfYfK (shifts)

So I decided to get rid of all those f's, because what remained reminded me of IKYOIYK

Code: Select all

OKKCYK
117 113 113 103 131 113 (octal ascii)
aag aac aac atc aca aac (a=1, c=3, g=7, t=0!)
K N N I T N (amino chain)
Lysine_Asparagine_Asparagine_Isoleucine_Tyrosine_Asparagine
1      1          1           2         1         2
LAASTS
IZXKRK (shifts)

It looked promising at one point...

unless the word is Laasts

I have no good reason for saying this, but I think we might want to try dividing them by 2.

Code: Select all

3(-3) 3(-1) 3(-3) 6(-8) 3(-3) 6(-8) 3(-3) 6(-0) 3(-3) 3(-2) 3(-3) 2(-8)

I have to study for my many midterms... er, I mean I must go research The Order. :p Ahem. Just thought I'd throw that out there. My mind works in mysterious ways, as you all know.

I'll come on IRC when I take a break from studying... erm, from researching.

Also, we should definitely take into account that TJ is something of a screw up. If something small seems wrong, it may be his mistake. Just a thought.

Get to work deagol

blahblablee · Post by **blahblablee** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:22 pm

janesalteredstates wrote:
Also, we should definitely take into account that TJ is something of a screw up. If something small seems wrong, it may be his mistake. Just a thought.

yup hes no walter thats for sure

Musique · Post by **Musique** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:33 pm

voyboy wrote:IM not a a part of any of the ARG stuff but Im here to fink on Musique...she said that if she can go to one of the drops she will go and isnt worried about going alone...You guys dont let her. She's crazy.
After all look at what just happened to Bree and DB and Jonas...you maybe captured by R2D2 as well!

*shakes head*

No love, whatsoever.

Did I also mention...

*whispers* ... voyboy tells lies...

ignatzmouse · Post by **ignatzmouse** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:47 pm

Tum te tum, some dead ends to report:

I looked to see if there was an obvious way to do a permutation on the letters (A,C,G,T) to get positions 4,6,8 and 12 to hit a 12-letter amino. There aren't many choices, and none of them matched. I tried seeing what happens if you just map them all to Phenylalanine but oddly enough you get gibberish.

There's a lot of repetition in this puzzle: the decrypt can contain at most 5 letters. If one pair of those turns out to be a collision, then we've got only 4 letters. Any bets those letters are (A,C,G,T) or (I,K,O,Y)?

One clue I think we've missed is that in the sequence:

Code: Select all

6(-3) 6(-1) 6(-3) 12(-8) 6(-3) 12(-8) 6(-3) 12(-0) 6(-3) 6(-2) 6(-3) 12(-8)

all of the prime factors of every number are 2 and 3. Moreover, the prime factors of 4,6,8 and 12 are also 2 and 3. Hmm.

I tried splitting the key by dividing out multiples of 3:

Code: Select all

2(-1) 2(-1) 2(-1) 4(-8) 2(-1) 4(-8) 2(-1) 4(-0) 2(-1) 2(-2) 2(-1) 4(-8)

and multiples of 2:

Code: Select all

3(-3) 3(-1) 3(-3) 3(-1) 3(-3) 3(-1) 3(-3) 3(-0) 3(-3) 3(-1) 3(-3) 3(-1)

but this got me nowhere. OK, time to give it a rest for the night.

deagol · Post by **deagol** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:23 am

More from Trav:

Looperama, so, I'm supposed to loop around Isoleucine?

Code: Select all

6(-3) 6(-1) 6(-3) 12(-8) 6(-3) 12(-8) 6(-3) 12(-0) 6(-3) 6(-2) 6(-3) 12(-8)
Isoleucine_Proline_Isoleucine_IsoleucineIs_Isoleucine...Aspartic_acid_Isoleucine_IsoleucineIso
     ^          ^       ^                ^      ^    ...     ^             ^                ^
     6          6       6                12     6    ...     6             6                12
UNUSUSUCUTUS
RMRKRKRCRRRK

Or using the alternative shifts:
6(-6) 6(-1) 6(-6) 12(-4) 6(-6) 12(-4) 6(-6) 12(-0) 6(-6) 6(-5) 6(-6) 12(-4)
UNUSUSUCUTUS
OMOOOOOCOOOO

too weird.

TOSG · Post by **TOSG** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:29 am

Haha, I got that before, too.

deagol · Post by **deagol** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:07 am

How could a word ever come out if every other letter is always the same? As you pointed out, 6(-a) is 1st, 3rd, 5th, etc. And from the DNA sequence, Isoleucine comes out in those positions as well, guaranteeing the repetition of whatever that letter is.

TOSG · Post by **TOSG** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:19 am

deagol wrote:How could a word ever come out if every other letter is always the same? As you pointed out, 6(-a) is 1st, 3rd, 5th, etc. And from the DNA sequence, Isoleucine comes out in those positions as well, guaranteeing the repetition of whatever that letter is.

I've been wondering that myself. There's got to be something more to this - something that we've been missing.

These weird patterns have to be there for a reason...

ignatzmouse · Post by **ignatzmouse** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:10 am

deagol wrote:How could a word ever come out if every other letter is always the same? As you pointed out, 6(-a) is 1st, 3rd, 5th, etc. And from the DNA sequence, Isoleucine comes out in those positions as well, guaranteeing the repetition of whatever that letter is.

It could be that we're decrypting a 12-letter (A,C,G,T) sequence, which we then decrypt again to get a 4-letter word.

deagol · Post by **deagol** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:52 am

From our incompetent screw-up:

He only changed the (-1) to (+1). So I have:

UNUSUSUCUTUS
RORKRKRCRRRK

Now what?