[DISCUSSION] Glenn's career. Should he have been removed?

[ShardinsKitten]

Personally he is only removed as PM (or that's all the creators said) He may still be writing/directing/editing or whatever else he does. Which makes sense to me...

1. Not many people would trust him as PM after this. We can say innocent until proven guilty all we want. But that's not the way it really works, as much as we would like to believe it.

2. If it is still the case, he can still help write/direct/edit for OpAphid, Tachyon, and Brother. He just wont be the PM so someone else would probably be doing the puzzles, clues, character interactions and drops. This seems fair.

3. Even if they let him go completely, It'd have to be for good reason, I think. If nothing else, just to cover themselves if something else did go on. (which I would think would be more of a "leave" until everything got cleared up and figured out).

All we can hope is the next PM wont be revealed until after it is over. Though since the creators have said this is a "never ending" story, in that as long as people watch it, and participate they'll keep doing it, I dunno if that will be possible, and I dunno if their "never ending" idea applies to the ARG as well.

Really I think it was a wise choice as of now. We really can't do anything but wait for more facts and see how all the cards fall.

We could get more facts, with out having to disclose the particulars of who, and really I think we all have a right to know. Especially if they are keeping Glen on as a writer/director/editor whatever. Though the names of the girls shouldn't be revealed unless they give their permission.

[chershaytoute]

I am very hopeful The Creators are able to get hold of the actual server logs of all the alleged incidents - and until they are proven, they are alleged. This is a country in which we are all innocent until proven guilty. And at this moment, Glenn is innocent of everything he has been accused of until those actual server logs have been read. Accusations are just that.

This puts my mind at odds with itself. Do I hope that the server logs will prove the accusations are lies...or that they are the truth?

Either one, to my way of thinking, is equally disturbing...

On the question at hand though...

If, in fact, Glenn was doing as accused, should he be fired? I honestly don't know. I am very hopeful that once The Creators have had a chance to go through the server logs - where the only real evidence lies - they can make a decision based on the facts. But...there's a problem. They will also have to make a decision based on opinion, even after weighing those facts - because everything was said in public...and what's been said is always very hard to unsay...

So regardless of what is the truth, I don't envy The Creators' decision here...

I do like the idea that he will continue to write - his writing has added a great deal of scope to the Breeniverse as we know it. But I don't really think he can come back as the PM for the ARG...but, again, it's The Creator's choice...and not one I envy...nor one I would choose to make.


Edit: because I do love my own opinion and just can't wait to hear more of it!

[lookyz]

Here is the crux of the issue from my view:

The Lonelygirl15 experience has been rated PG13. When Glenn engaged in the behavior as a private individual BEFORE being hired on by The Creators, that wasn't a problem.

However, if he continued to engage in inappropriate behavior AFTER being hired, then that is an issue.

In addition it's a PG13 show trying to attract advertisers and sponsors.

Apo, you totally answered the question I was going to ask. I don't have canon day marked on my calendar, but I was thinking this prob happened before the merger.

Personally, I like following the game, love the visuals, the puzzels, the feeling like someone was going to tap me on the shoulder after I watched an Op vid alone.

I feel like the big issue is the PM poking his head out of the curtain. He didn't remain anonymous. If players get stuck, a hint should come from a character, not a dude with mac (that'd be Glen right).

The neked pic thing just adds a layer of controversy that is making this sloppy. It's the cringe factor to this story. If they kept him on as PM and kept him in his cage, I wouldn't mind because, let's face it, there was (emphasis on was) a good story goin on.

Unfortunatly because of the late-night bravery we all get online every once in awhile (you know - the one that makes you wake up early the next day and clear your history & cache), he's probably getting the "Zero Cool" punishment, and won't be creating codes anytime soon. I agree that he's lost the trust of the players, and you just can't go back after that.

We'll be seeing another game from him, I'm sure he's learning the lesson of the curtain the hard way now. Too bad we had to be here to see it.

I had to get my 2 bits in after reading 25 pages of ranting and accusations. Leave it to the LG/OpAphid crowd to read almost too far into it...we're so desperate for some action, that we're eating this up!

[milowent]

Glenn's career. Should he have been fired?

Clearly not all the information about what happened to/with Glenn is going to be made public here, and i don't think it should, so we don't really have enough information to judge whether he should have been fired. I think we just have to trust the Creators on this one.

[bethy]

Honestly? Whether or not he was let go as the PM of the ARG is none of our business. If he were working for the creators, that's a personnel decision and none of our concern.

Our concern is the PM and the game players and how they interact with each other, and what is and what isn't acceptable methods of obtaining (or giving) information....not any specific individuals. If the creators are going to find a new PM or PMs...great, then we discuss them as the PM. If certain players cheated...they need to be removed from the game.

But in the end, this shows we need better game rules and better adherence to them.

[kellylen]

Honestly? Whether or not he was let go as the PM of the ARG is none of our business. If he were working for the creators, that's a personnel decision and none of our concern.

Our concern is the PM and the game players and how they interact with each other, and what is and what isn't acceptable methods of obtaining (or giving) information....not any specific individuals. If the creators are going to find a new PM or PMs...great, then we discuss them as the PM. If certain players cheated...they need to be removed from the game.

But in the end, this shows we need better game rules and better adherence to them.

you stole the words from my mouth

[Nieriel.Manwathiel]

I am very hopeful The Creators are able to get hold of the actual server logs of all the alleged incidents

many people have expressed concern of fake logs, but i would think the createatrons would have access to the actual logs; like, just ring up the people who do the IRC and say "we need the logs for these days of chat in this channel"

or are chat rooms one of the few things in this WORLD that are autonomous and keep no records of any sort?

[trainer101]

I am very hopeful The Creators are able to get hold of the actual server logs of all the alleged incidents

many people have expressed concern of fake logs, but i would think the createatrons would have access to the actual logs; like, just ring up the people who do the IRC and say "we need the logs for these days of chat in this channel"

or are chat rooms one of the few things in this WORLD that are autonomous and keep no records of any sort?

I'm sure the activity remains on the server but you can't just call up and request it. IRC is completely independent from LG15. They are under no obligation to share anything on their servers with anyone. I can't just call up Coca-Cola and ask for the secret formula - well, I can, but they won't give it to me.

[Nieriel.Manwathiel]

I am very hopeful The Creators are able to get hold of the actual server logs of all the alleged incidents

many people have expressed concern of fake logs, but i would think the createatrons would have access to the actual logs; like, just ring up the people who do the IRC and say "we need the logs for these days of chat in this channel"

or are chat rooms one of the few things in this WORLD that are autonomous and keep no records of any sort?

I'm sure the activity remains on the server but you can't just call up and request it. IRC is completely independent from LG15. They are under no obligation to share anything on their servers with anyone. I can't just call up Coca-Cola and ask for the secret formula - well, I can, but they won't give it to me.

but they're not asking for the passwords to the servers; they're asking for records of what transpired on a joint venture (the irc did somewhat join the lg15 people because it's an lg15 chat).


btw-- a former coke or pepsi secretary tried to do that recently!!!

[nobackspacebutton]

Innocent until proven guilty?

Or have we all already hanged him?

[gogo]

What I find interesting is that since a PM of an ARG is supposed to remain hidden, it is really not possible for viewers and/or players to know how involved Rubenstein is/will be with the ARG. Obviously, he did create these characters and their story. If he is still involved in the main story, who is to say he will really not be involved in the “revamped” ARG? Right now, emotions are running high, but it seems like many of the ARGers just want a game to play where their hard work is honestly rewarded.

Rubenstein obviously has talent, but seems inexperienced at running ARGs. I believe from info at the lgpedia and other sources, this is his first attempt at an PMing an ARG. Honestly, offering clues to people who are willing to share something in return seems like the way of the world. After all, in the story, our trio went to the vets to get a human fixed and receive a prescription for human painkillers, and many viewers responded with the idea that people can be easily bought. It seems like this is the same kind of situation. Allegedly, some people were willing to use currency (in this case- alleged nude photos) in exchange for services (answers).

I am not sure whether or not the PM should have been asked to leave because of this situation. No one was forced into anything. Cheating is immoral, but if people are so bent on cheating, they will find a way to cheat. People cheat all the time in life (unfortunately). LG15, for example, began by attaching their "real" videos as responses to very popular YouTubers’ videos in the hopes of getting noticed or using the popular YouTubers' large audiences. They cleverly “cheated” their way into our hearts with their compelling videos.

I do feel bad for the earnest ARGers who tried their hardest to play this game, and watched as others were “successful” and some were even recognized/thanked in a video. Some ARGers have stated that they are only around for the game, not the story. I wonder if it will ever be possible for the story and game to work together for a larger cohesive base of viewers/participants. It is indeed a quandary, especially considering the time it takes to present all this for free to viewers. This production teams needs some financial backing. I am sure they cannot live forever on the admiration of lonelycrackheads.

Therefore, in my humble (and meaningless) opinion, I am not sure it matters if the PM is no longer the PM even if he continues with the show. Again, how involved will he be? We'll never know. In addition, if this situation has made people so disturbed, why would this individual stay on with the production? It is a quandry.

I feel guilty posting this because I am not an ARGer at all, and I feel like I am just weighing in because I feel like weighing in. I don't have any solutions or anything. I guess I just feel confused by a situation that is really none of my business. Please excuse me if I am all wrong about the info. This has been a rubber-necking situation for me.

I am not proud of being intrigued by this...

[itsreallyreal]

getting rid of glenn isn't a quick fix. which is obviously the kind of fix the creator's were looking for. everyone is saying that the creators must've had concrete evidence. if people who were involved in the community that it started and stayed in don't have evidence, how did the creators magically procure such evidence?

there are thousands of pages of chat logs that need to be dissected and analyzed. its not possible that the people who are PMing the Creators with their concerns have given this kind of evidence.

the evidence that everyone wants we're scrambling for. no, you're not entitled to it. but yes, we do want to clear glenn's name. its not right for people who decide to hold a personal vendetta again the PM to be able to FALSELY accuse him of such things. how is it that everyone automatically believes them? yet, when we offer up information that counters their claim, everyone jumps on us for evidence.

it is sad, but for some reason others like to see people break down and lose everything they have, rather than them be empowered and actually be a success.

the claims from tilting about having spoken to a person who spoke directly to glenn, to my knowledge is a fabrication. as of last night she told us that she wouldn't support those claims because there was no evidence. yet now she is fully supporting them enough to quit.

nothing is sacred, and everyone is lying.
what is more disgusting that the cheating is the lying that is going on to prove a point.
i may have lost many a friend today.
but i know one thing. i won't contribute to the lies and deceit that has taken hold of those people i once trusted.

All of tyhese great arguments aside... They have clearly spoken to Glenn... Hasn't anyone given Glenn enough credit to say he MAY have just sucked it up, been a man and admitted to his wrong doings to the creators? I am SURE they spoke to him yesterday... IF this really happened and IF Glenn is still a "great Guy" (I have no judgement because I don't know him) then isn't it possible he just got caught off guard by a phone call in Vegas and said, "Crap... Yeah man.... I mean it wasn't like THAT but I did give clues to people and make friends with the players and have personal relationships with them..." So on and so forth and the creators said, "Sorry man..."

I mean give the guy more credit. If he made a boo boo maybe he decided to cowboy up and take responsability.... .. .

[Killthesmiley]

Here is the crux of the issue from my view:

The Lonelygirl15 experience has been rated PG13. When Glenn engaged in the behavior as a private individual BEFORE being hired on by The Creators, that wasn't a problem.

However, if he continued to engage in inappropriate behavior AFTER being hired, then that is an issue.

In addition it's a PG13 show trying to attract advertisers and sponsors.

I'd like to make a statement on that:

Remember guys, the creators are looking for product placements.
if the companies are smart, and have a decent PR group, which most do, they will come onto the web site and forum and read about this scandal!
NO (ABSOLUTELY NONE) of the sponsers for the demographics that the creators have want to be associate with an issue like this. It's immoral and unethical.

[itsreallyreal]

And move on... .. .

[wintermute]

BUNNIES

'mute