LGPedia - User contributions [en]

User talk:Renegade/Portal:Lonelygirl15

2008-05-09T21:31:44Z

24.41.31.80:

''Issues currently being discussed:''
*Lack of indication that the character images are links. ([[#Solutions|Current Discussion]])
*Possible implementation of character rollover effect onto video images ([[#Solutions|Current Discussion]])
{{clr}}

==Comments==
:Well...it's ok. What I really like about the current one is the fact that it's really clean and attractive. This new one doesn't have enough contrast (too much blue) and has a lot of wide open spaces. Also, the rollover for the characters is really unattractive in my opinion. The old lgpedia format had more flair, like stars and flowers, but this new one seems to have only a filmstrip which is for the most part totally empty (only the right-most section being at all filled). And finally, I think the header is too big and flashy, not nearly as clean or "classy" as the old one. Sorry to the people who no doubt worked really hard on this, take my suggestions with a grain of salt, either of the two is fine with me but I really prefer the old one :/ [[User:Lumino]]

:I love this new version it sick [[User:OldOak7]]
:I think it looks great! [[User:nnnik]]
:I have no criticism at all. Maybe it's that I'm not good at this stuff, so I think it looks perfect. Either way LOVE IT!!!! Can't wait to see the finished product. --Greenie [[User:138.210.216.82|138.210.216.82]] 12:17, 10 April 2008 (CDT)
:I love this redesign! You do a nice job, Renegade!- [[User:AzukiLotus]]12 April 2008
::Ditto. This "living room" for the LGPedia "house" feels less like an information overload, and more like a "welcome! won't you come on in?" ;-) --[[user:Nieriel.Manwathiel|Nieriel.Manwathiel]]
:I don't know if we're still taking comments on the page, but just for the record, I like think it looks awesome. [[User:Elphielivesagain]]
:I think maybe the background needs another color than white. [[User:Krisser]]
:I love the new design and a dont find the character links hard to find now it has text over them [[User:Danielbeast24790]]
I really really really like the new design of the page, i say lets go for it!
:I think it looks great, but my problem with it is... to much blue! Spice it up a bit, guys. I also think you should make larger spaces between the character photos; too close together, it'll confuse new people. Other than that... it's awesome! {{unsigned|66.171.183.102}}
:I like it! I know there's a huge argument below about the character icons as links....so just to comment on that, I think that it's rather obvious that they're links. I mean, as soon as you roll over them it seems clear to me. I like the rollovers, as I find that they make this a lot more obvious, you know? But I'm not putting this down there in the argument, because it's getting awfully personal. :P I think the design's cute and attractive. Good job! I hope it works out. [[User:DreamHaze|DreamHaze]] 19:00, 29 April 2008 (CDT)
It looks pretty slick and professional, easy on the eyes and a good arrangement. All in all i like it and say go ahead and use it. [[User:KindredPhantom|KindredPhantom]]

==Suggestions==
===Shiori's happy nitpicks===
#The contrast on the vid template is still too low. Can we crank it up or something? The "no image available" image is especially making it look jarring with the low contrast.
##Playing around in Photoshop, #9FC6F0 looks nice for the bars.
##Could you make the image background the darker color? I liked that... (Speaking of the image, tone down the "no image available" one; it's crazy dark.)
#Looks squished. Make layout width:100%, pwease.
#I don't even know if this is even possible, but I'll throw it out there anyway. When the layout is changed to 100% width, and then I make my browser window smaller, the character images eat up the side nav. If you could, fix it on the left and maybe set the width in between the images to a variable width so they'd stretch across the whole top bar?

Looks ''really'' good, Ren! - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 14:31, 27 March 2008 (CDT)

:#I ''can'' play around with the colors, but let's first hear other opinions. And the "no image available" one was actually made for the previous proposal, I just uploaded it 'cause it's the default filename if no image was set. I'll upload a new one once we know which color we go with.
:#It's designed for 1024px width; can't make it wider without some more photoshop love. So let's hear what others say, first.
:#Given that the character icons should stay away from the dark blue part, if possible, I'd be opposed to that. But then again, I don't know what exactly you did and didn't do to achieve width: 100%, so I can't even reproduce the problem.
:More opinions, anyone?
::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 15:00, 27 March 2008 (CDT)

::I think the only real thing that's bugged me on the design is the fact currently all images (whether character or video) are on the right hand side of the page. Previous versions always had some on both sides. Now, I know you don't want the characters anywhere near the dark blue of the banner, and I agree with you there Ren, so I don't even want to imagine how much it would take to test different (and I'm not suggesting the whole thing get worked over), but I wanted to point it out and see if anyone else noticed this as well. Plus, I finally had some time in this busy semester to gather some opinions for this discussion. --[[User:Phoenician|Pheon]] 03:02, 25 April 2008 (CDT)

===Character Row===
What happens if, at some point, we need to have more or less character icons? Does this require an entire redo in photoshop? --[[User:Zoey|Zoey]] 17:36, 27 March 2008 (CDT)
:The "edit character row" link is there for a reason, Z ;) [[User:Renegade/Portal:Lonelygirl15/Character Row]]
::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 22:21, 27 March 2008 (CDT)

::Right, but what if we add a character, doesn't that throw the width of the character row off? Based on the width of the header? --[[User:Zoey|Zoey]] 23:14, 27 March 2008 (CDT)

:::Well, depending on how you modify the row, it shrinks or grows...?
::::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 12:39, 28 March 2008 (CDT)

{{clr}}

===Vid Template/Image Color(s)===
<div style="padding:1ex 1em; border:#aaa 1px solid; background-color:#ECFCF4">
:<font color=red>'''Resolved: Solution was to keep darker colors.'''</font>
:''Images have been removed during the archiving.''
We're basically agreeing that the colors look good in the vid template, but Ren and I are argue-discussing whether the darker color should be used for the image border or not. So please decide whether the top or bottom version looks better: [image]
- [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 20:34, 30 March 2008 (CDT)

:I like the bottom one better.
::--[[User:TimiN|TimiN]] 19:45, 31 March 2008 (CDT)

::I have created an actual (not fabricated :P) comparison:
::[image]
::I agree that, put next to each other like this, the darker scheme looks slightly better; but keep in mind that, on the portal, the news are placed next to a giant, dark box, which generates a much different contrast:
::[image]
::And, though I agree the difference is marginal, and the darker scheme doesn't look ''bad'', I do think, placed against the dark box, the lighter scheme works slightly better.
:::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 20:36, 31 March 2008 (CDT)

:::My does not think the lighter version is better. :p (When taken from a full-page standpoint, the difference is almost unnoticeable. Meh. - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 21:44, 31 March 2008 (CDT)
</div>

===Character Icons===
One problem I have with the design now is that it is not clear that you can click on the individual character icons to view the main characters' pages. The icons simply look like part of the design at present. Perhaps putting the names back under the icons will help people understand that they can click those... or does anyone else have any ideas? --[[User:Zoey|Zoey]] 22:52, 30 March 2008 (CDT)

:You get the normal link hand icon over them, so those not familiar with mediawiki in general should get it by instinct. And even if they don't, [[Characters]] is the first link in the first content box. In a worst case scenario, a confused person just takes one click longer.
:Not to mention that the names of the current character boxes don't look like links either. I click them because I know from experience they are links, not because it's actually obvious.
::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 11:40, 31 March 2008 (CDT)

::The hand icon appears over every image, so the fact that they appear on the icons does not provide any real clue to the fact that the images actually take you to the characters' pages. The whole point of putting the icons on the front page like that is to give people an easy way to familiarize themselves with the characters. People won't just automatically click the [[Characters]] link. That's like saying we only need to put the stills from each new video, because people will click on them ''knowing'' they can get to the video transcript pages based on the fact that the hand icon is there... and if not, they'll be able to click the "List of Videos" link on the sidebar, which takes them to the list of videos anyways, so what's the point of listing the videos on the portal page anyways? The point is ease of access, which is why the character icons are there in the first place as well.

::And I think there is a big difference between the character icon placement you proposed and the one we have now. Currently, they are in a separate column and each icon has a box with the name of the character underneath. It is much more obvious that you can click those images and/or the links to learn more about the characters than it is on your proposal, where there is no text and the images just look like part of the header design. I think it's important that people know to click these links, so we should find a way to make it obvious that they can. --[[User:Zoey|Zoey]] 18:46, 31 March 2008 (CDT)

:::Random idea: Would overlaying a link-indicating icon or something work? I can't imagine it looking right with text, which is kind of a problem... - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 18:49, 31 March 2008 (CDT)

:::I added alt text, I think that helps a little. Not sure it solves the problem entirely though... --[[User:Zoey|Zoey]] 18:55, 31 March 2008 (CDT)

:::Hence why I said "those not familiar with mediawiki in general should get it by instinct". Those who are new to LGPedia should instinctively react to the cursor change, those who are familiar with LGPedia also know that the portal icons can be clicked.
:::Of course largely labeling them as links would make it clearer, but a caption box like on the current portal will definitely not work. An overlay with the name ''might'' work. But so far, you're the only one mentioning it, so let's hear what others say before we change the design in such a drastic way.
:::In addition, your analogy is wrong - the latest videos are changing almost daily and are on the front page as ''news'', not as permanent content. We are not just providing a link, we are reporting the latest video - and that requires a date at least. In addition, a random still is by far not as clear as a frontal face shot. Some shot of the general LA area, or of Daniel in the rented house, could fit dozens of episodes, so the link wouldn't be clear without text. The List of Videos is also not a replacement, because it shows neither a date or posting, nor a description, nor a viewing link.
:::A link to Daniel's page on Characters ''is'' the same as a link to Daniel's page on the front page.
:::A link with poster on List of Videos is ''not'' the same as a full news post with posting date and watch links.
:::You cannot compare news posts that inform users of the latest information of a video to a static link.
::::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 19:59, 31 March 2008 (CDT)

::::Okay, but how is a person supposed to differentiate between the hand icon that comes over the images for the icons and the hand icon that comes over the image for, say, the graphic that says "Lonelygirl15 portal." That image doesn't take them anywhere of relevance, so why should people assume that the icons, which appear to be a part of the larger image, take them anywhere?
::::I agree with you on why we need the whole video template. But I am unsure why this is relevant. Are you trying to argue that the icons shouldn't be there in the first place because they do not report the news? Could you please clarify this?
::::And I completely disagree that a link to Daniel's page on Characters is the same as the link to Daniel's page on the front page. The Characters page contains an image, a clearly identifiable link, and a brief description of the character. The icon on the front page does contain not anything but an image link. And really, on the Characters page, people ''aren't'' supposed to be clicking the image to get to the page (otherwise all of the characters would need images, which most of them do ''not'' have), but the images redirect there as a "just in case."
::::They are not equal. They are different. The icons are on the front page because providing easy links to the main characters is important. We need to find a way to make sure they are emphasized, otherwise they might as well not be there. And unless this is what you are suggesting (in which case we'd need to have an entirely different discussion here), we need to make sure people know they are there and will take them to the content they will, in fact, take them to. --[[User:Zoey|Zoey]] 20:50, 31 March 2008 (CDT)

:::::Well, I for one would prefer names next to the characters. Now, I think Ren said that would be difficult code-wise (I wouldn't know any better, as that's not my expertise) but I still would lean toward names with the characters if only for new visitors to attach names to the faces they see. And while I'm sure that there won't be so much white space on the Portal -- due to the fact this is merely a sandbox and such -- I do want to express that I'm not a fan of so much blank, empty space (i imagine there's something in the works, right Ren?). Again, maybe it's just me, but those are my thoughts. --[[User:Phoenician|Pheon]] 21:29, 31 March 2008 (CDT)

::::::This looks '''awesome''', but I agree with Pheon about the names. I as well am not an expert at coding, but how impossible would it be for it to only say the name when you roll over it? I don't know if that's completely out of the question but I figured I'd throw it out there. Please don't laugh me to scorn! [[User:Nancypants|Nancypants]] 21:37, 31 March 2008 (CDT)

:::::::To take it a step further, (I'm pretty sure it's not possible in the Pedia, so you can just consider it rambling) we could do rollover images to let you know the character's name... I think the best idea would be an alt tag with just the character name and some superimposed image letting you know it's a link. - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 21:43, 31 March 2008 (CDT)

:::::::I can easily code a div that says "Click here for this Character's page - Daniel" or something when you hover over Daniel's pic. If it works in ''Internet Explorer'', however, depends on if the programmers were drunk one day and actually wrote standards compliant code.
::::::You misunderstood me, pheon. Code-wise, it'd be easy to write. But if you add captions to these images, the design is destroyed. Period.
::::::As for the white-space, it's currently fixed width optimized for a 1024x768 resolution. As noted above, I can try creating a variable width version, but that requires a lot more work on the image. However, given that more whitespace is generally regarded as "lighter" and "easier to grasp" by users, and I don't see anything lacking space, I honestly don't quite see the problem. The news boxes would not be smaller anyway - if anything, they would be just as high, but longer, with the descriptions only filling one line, and the content descriptions would all be in one line.
:::::You missed my point, Z. All I was doing was showing how your analogy of comparing the character icons to the news was invalid. I was not making any statements about the validity of any content item on any page.
:::::And btw, the header can easily be turned into a link to the portal to de-confuse the users, or overlayed by an empty div to de-linkify it. Or used as a CSS background image. Or whatever. What matters is not that the header is a link, but that the character icons are links.
::::::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 22:07, 31 March 2008 (CDT)

::::::I said it before, and I'll say it again. Variable width FTW. Make it so! (If you can) - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 22:09, 31 March 2008 (CDT)

:::::::The headers are not links anymore and the layout is variable width now.
::::::::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 01:08, 2 April 2008 (CDT)

:::::::Just added charbox template, generating a special overlay effect on FF and IE 7 and upwards, and also changing the link to the character page directly, not to the image page. (Thus making very obvious that this image is a link to a character, not to an image page.)
::::::::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 22:48, 5 April 2008 (CDT)

:Looks perfect! I love the rollover names, that's awesome! [[User:Nancypants|Nancypants]] 18:16, 11 April 2008 (CDT)

I really like the rollover names too, and I definitely think it helps, but I don't think it solves the problem entirely. We really need a clear indication that these are links. I think that part of the thing here is that the people who are commenting are people who are familiar with the current layout, and already know that these images should be links... but any new viewers that LGPedia draws in could very easily be confused by the proposed setup. Perhaps something like.. a little arrow that says "Click here to learn more about these characters"... or something to that effect should be considered? I'm not sure how to best do this, as obviously I want to keep it as aesthetically pleasing as possible, but I also think functionality and navigability for new users is really important and something we should all keep in mind. Other than that, I really like this design and am on board with going forward with it! --[[User:Zoey|Zoey]] 18:30, 11 April 2008 (CDT)
:Has there been any additional thought given to how to solve this issue? Like I said, as soon as we can fix this, I am totally on board with making this design live... --[[User:Zoey|Zoey]] 10:47, 21 April 2008 (CDT)
:A suggestion from the person who doesn't really know anything (so please don't take him seriously because this would probably really hard to do) but what if we put "Characters:" to the left of the images? Now the thing that would probably be impossible to do on a wiki: I think it might be cool if we could put buttons to the left and right of the images that when you roll over them, they scroll. This way if there are any additional main characters, we can add them in, and people can just scroll through the list. Yet again, I know nothing so don't yell at me for my incompetence, just an idea. [[User:-R-|-R-]] 18:51, 11 April 2008 (CDT)

===Video List===
I love the design, but I wanted to point out that the video list column extends far beyond the other one. Maybe instead of four video boxes we could have three? Just a thought. --[[User:FH14|FH14]] 13:25, 19 April 2008 (EST)
:I agree, because it's so long, it leaves such a gap at the bottom-left side (me no fan of huge-white spaces). Three video boxes could work, or maybe even making the section titles (i.e. "Lonelygirl15 Universe," "Behing the Scenes," "Other Series & Content") could be bigger? Just throwing out thoughts . . . --[[User:Phoenician|Pheon]] 19:51, 20 April 2008 (CDT)
::Another option could be to just remove the "recent videos" list and just have the link to the complete video list. What good do those additional five videos do, anyway? (I was also trying to innovate a bottom bar for the most recent five videos, but that would probably look weird.) - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 20:07, 20 April 2008 (CDT)

:::I have no idea what you guys talking about. When re-sized to 1024, the columns are almost equal, when wide on 1280, only the recent videos peek over. I don't see anything extending "far beyond". Screenshots? Arrows?
:::And, most importantly, are those showstoppers for you?
::::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 08:22, 21 April 2008 (CDT)
::::In my post I'm refering to the "Recent Videos" list. While its not major, I'm just not a fan of such a huge amount of white space. That said, I'm cool with Shiori's idea of just dropping the list all together, leaving just the link to the complete video list. --[[User:Phoenician|Pheon]] 17:30, 21 April 2008 (CDT)

:::::Are you on a notebook?
::::::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 21:11, 21 April 2008 (CDT)

:::::Bah, since even *if* you count this as a design problem (which I, personally, don't), it still looks better than the current layout, I'll go forward with the move unless there are objections within 21 minutes. If the list is a problem later, we can put it in a collapsed, expandable div/table.
::::::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 22:09, 21 April 2008 (CDT)

==Launch==
===Problems===
We are going forward with this? I do not see any resolution on the character icon issue...? --[[User:Zoey|Zoey]] 22:23, 21 April 2008 (CDT)
:The resolution is, I had a notice '''directly on the portal''' for the past [http://www.lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=Portal:Lonelygirl15&diff=119618&oldid=119583 eleven days] (getting very direct [http://www.lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=Portal:Lonelygirl15&diff=122215&oldid=122136 two days ago]) telling people to note objections and criticism. You are ''still'' the only one who complains about the character icons. In the [http://www.lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=User_talk%3ARenegade%2FPortal%3ALonelygirl15&diff=122724&oldid=119695 entire time], people mostly said they liked the design. I had one suggestion to totally change the background color, which was unsigned and not taken serious by ''anyone'' (and would look like crap), one suggestion to put "Characters:" next to the characters box, which, permanently, would destroy the layout, and on hover would be the same time of fix as now, and these remarks about the video list length now, which a) is minor, and can be fixed later, b) I can't even reproduce/understand in the first place, and didn't come up in the month before, so it's likely a taste question anyway, and c) one column has to be longer anyway. Period. It's forced by the way I coded this. Not to mention I already proposed a fix above (collapsed expandable div). So we have one non-serious, anonymous suggestion, one suggestion that only seeks to please you, not specifically mentions the poster actually dislikes the current state, and this minor taste issue today. In the same time, we got three "this looks great!" type of answers, and no one really objects. FH14 and Pheon don't really object - they just don't like the length of a certain content item. Neither do ''you'' really object to the design as a whole, you'd just like to put giant arrows on the character icons.

:Nobody really objects to this redesign, after I made it as public as possible on the pedia, and there was enough time to discuss it. Even with the minor nitpicks people still have, it's way better than the current version. You can argue "OMG THE LINKS ARE INVISIBLE!" all you want, even if they are, the users are not retarded - if they really want to know about the characters, they can click "Characters" until we found a solution for the icons. So yes, I'm moving forward with this ''now''.
::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 23:03, 21 April 2008 (CDT)

Renegade, I really did not want to do this, but since when do you have the authority to overrule admins... muchless to disrespect me... or ANY member of this wiki, for that matter? I am reverting your edits until a ''calm'' and ''rational'' '''consensus''' can be reached on this issue. And please take this as your warning, if the attitude displayed in these posts continues, there ''will'' be consequences. --[[User:Zoey|Zoey]] 00:29, 22 April 2008 (CDT)

:I did not realize that this was this close to going live, and I was surprised to see it happen. Frankly, although most people did agree that the new design looks good, the portal is a ''very'' highly viewed page, so I think we need to be absolutely sure we're ready before we make such a change. And in this case I think that means admin backing as well. The old portal works for now, and since there is a dispute we're going to leave it at that until a resolution is reached. And please, ''please'', ''PLEASE'', '''keep things civil'''. Respect is the name of the game here. Just keep that in mind. Kthx.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 00:40, 22 April 2008 (CDT)

:Once more, Zoey fucks over community discussion and consensus. Surprise! How many weeks this time until you can be arsed to go on with this? Three? Four? Five? Never?
:Let's be honest here: You're just pissed off because I didn't give you the opportunity to shoot it down in silence. I dared to post it out in the open, so you couldn't just say "no" without reasoning in the shadows. Now you're fucked because your made up reasoning finds no support, so you just claim there is no consensus, even though there was really no objection to the current design, and even though the note was ''on the fucking portal'' for almost two weeks.
:I am sick of this shit. '''If you want to dictate this redesign away, do it already.''' But stop making up bullshit reasons. Our users are not retarded. They ''can'' click "Characters" for character information if they don't realize the icons are links. And there is no need for more discussion for a consensus that needs to be reached, because everybody already likes the design, ''you'' just think our users are too stupid to find character information. In fact, I have been working ''together'' with the community for weeks to create the current state, and the progress and process is very visible above. The only thing standing in the way of this redesign is ''you''. Don't claim anything else.

:And for the record, no matter what you may try to construct here in order to justify your dictatorship - I did ''not'' overrule any administrative decision. You did ''not'' tell me to stop, even though it ''clearly'' said I was going to do it 29 minutes later. Had you wanted me to stop, a simple "stop!" would've have been enough. '''Do not lie and pretend there was an order not to do this.''' There was a clear favor of the redesign over the current design in the community, the redesign works and has been tested in both browsers, and there was no administrative overrule.
:I behaved perfectly within the policies and traditions of this encyclopedia. I just happened to do something ''you personally'' don't like.
::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 01:07, 22 April 2008 (CDT)

::Okay, really, give it a rest. I don't care about your personal feelings about Zoey or whatever. You can disagree with Zoey all you want, but there's absolutely no reason to attack her. And it's not just because she's the head admin; you shouldn't talk like that to ''anyone'' on the pedia. So here's what I suggest: Everyone just calm down, take a break, and come back later when you're capable of being respectful and not just vindictive. The portal we have right now has lasted this long--there's no reason why it has to be changed very soon, so let's try to work this out first. But please, only in a respectful manner.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 01:37, 22 April 2008 (CDT)

:::Ren, before I say anything else . . . heed Jon's word of advice. Even if we're all adults here, there's simply no need to bring that kind of language and attitude here. You're angry and peeved, we get it. We don't need to read what could be very well be considered a verbal attack. Seriously Ren, keep it civil -- not only for respect of your fellow LGPedians, but also for the sake of not reducing another discussion into a shouting match.

:::Back to the discussion, while there have been about ten different posters on this discussion page, that just not a good consensus. Granted, I know we'd never get every user to give their opinion and I ''know'' you gave them "ample" time to even give an opinion, but like Jon said the Portals are perhaps the most frequent viewed of pages . . . . and we're not even talking about a small change to the Portal like pattern of the character boxes or design of the video column, this is on the WHOLE portal, man. And yes, Admins don't need to rubberstamp yes or no to every decision, but we do have the final judgement whether or not we beleive a proper consensus has been reached. And, IMHO, the lack of discussion here (myself included) just shows such a consensus isn't there and that even some of the more die-hard LGPedians haven't had a chance to properly assess the redesign. Honestly, '''would''' waiting a little longer for some actual discussion ''be so bad?'' We do have lives outside of this Pedia, you know. --[[User:Phoenician|Pheon]] 02:00, 22 April 2008 (CDT)

::::And you actually think confirming that the portal is one of the most viewed pages through a ''second'' admin is helping?
::::All you're doing is confirming that there was a notice for almost two weeks on the probably most-viewed page of this encyclopedia. All you're doing is confirming that this was ''not'' a surprising move at all, and that this discussion was as public as it gets. It's ridiculous to pretend there'd be a sudden influx of new discussion participants if we waited longer.
::::The only way to make this discussion more public is to put the notice in 500% font size, bold and red.
::::If you wanna cower in fear of Zoey's wrath, please, do so. I don't blame you. But everybody knows the discussion itself if not going to change. Maybe over a month, we'll get a new nitpick or a new comment, but nothing's going to change. This discussion has discussed everything there was to discussed. The design was adapted again and again and again to fit the community's needs. There was an open discussion from the start, then the participate link, then the general notice on the portal, then the specific notice on the portal, then the direct statement on here.
::::Let me reiterate that: The portal itself said the redesign was coming almost two weeks, and the portal itself said, for two days, it was coming on monday. It is fucking ridiculous you three are behaving like this was a great surprise to any of you.
::::The only reason this is halted is because Zoey is not getting what she wants, and she has the badge to force her will. It's as simple as that.
:::::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 02:16, 22 April 2008 (CDT)

:::::Ren, Jonpro seriously JUST asked that, ''"Everyone just calm down, take a break, and come back later when you're capable of being respectful and not just vindictive."'' Despite this, you have continued to personally attack Zoey. Enough man, this just isn't the place for that. Now, posting a civil response is fine, but you have '''no''' reason to just continue attacking Zoey. As it stands, the three of us don't feel the redesign is necessarily ready to become live, nor do we feel that there's any reason why it has to become live THIS very second. The date it was "planned" to go live was chosen I imagine for efficiency's sake, but it's not like we have a deadline like we did when the KM Portal was first being created.
:::::But once again, before you respond please take the time to take a deep breath. We really don't need another shouting match here. --[[User:Phoenician|Pheon]] 03:41, 22 April 2008 (CDT)
:::::::I have been following the design discussion for some time and not felt the need to comment because I pretty much felt Zoey's comments on that thread said it all. I think the design is quite nice and thanks to Ren for all the hard work. However as pointed out it can be just a little better if we can figure out how to make it clearer that the pictures are icons. Yes, I get the point that it has never been totally clear even with the old design. However this is the perfect opportunity for us to get it right. I am a Mac user and as such i strongly believe that good design should be inherently intuitive to the user. The film strip looks nice and the roll overs were a good first step but I cannot help but feel we are missing one small adjustment to the design that will solve the dilemma once and for all. Now is the time to do that and I would be more than happy to try out designs or contribute in any way to finding a really great solution. I fear that if we take the design live now the importance of this design decision will just be lost and may never reach that final awesome end point that will do the design justice.--[[User:Modelmotion|modelmotion]] 05:31, 22 April 2008 (CDT)

::::::Pheon, the only thing that really stands out to me in your reply is that you don't deny at all that the notice was very visible, and that it was very visible Monday was planned. Yet none of you complained. So either you ''are'' lying, and you knew full well when it was planned to go live with this, or you're not lying, which means the three administrators of this pedia failed to watch the most-viewed page on it for two to three days - iow, they failed to do their job. Majorly.
::::::There is no ground for you to pretend this is oh-so-surprising. In fact, ''on this very page'' it is documented that you were here on April 20th, whereas I added the "it's happening Monday" notice on the 19th. Yet, there was no "OMG STOP!!!" from you.
::::::Unless you're blind or illiterate, it was very fucking obvious when I was going to do this. Yet, you guys are trying to build this up as a kind of sneak attack where I tried to circumvent the decision-makers. Not gonna happen. If you want to shoot this down, fine. Do it. But I will not let you make up bullshit to justify it.
:::::::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 10:41, 22 April 2008 (CDT)

:::::::I for not did not see the [http://www.lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=Portal:Lonelygirl15&diff=prev&oldid=122215 notice] that the design was going to go live on Monday, and it's not fair to call me either "blind or illiterate" because of that. You posted it in ''one'' place, on the portal, and made no mention of it here until ''21 minutes'' beforehand. And frankly, I've been pretty busy these last few days, and even if I happened to see the edit in Recent Changes, I probably assumed it was just an update for a new video, as there was no edit summary. And in the few times I likely viewed the portal, I didn't think to look closely at the notice to see that it had changed to indicate a date when the design would go live. In other words, it wasn't as obvious as you make it out to be, and there's no reason to yell at us for missing it. Having said that, you still ''did'' indicate that you were going to make the change a few days beforehand, and there was no ''direct'' objection (although I'd consider Zoey's [http://www.lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=User_talk%3ARenegade%2FPortal%3ALonelygirl15&diff=122724&oldid=122722 edit] an indirect objection), so you did follow procedure for the most part. However, that does not at all justify your disrespectful comments toward any of us, and your refusal to stop making them isn't helping your case.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 16:04, 22 April 2008 (CDT)
:::::::::I also missed the notice on the main page and I use LGPedia quite a bit. I think that just goes to show that our eyes (or optical sensors in my case) are creatures of habit and that goes to why design is so very important. I was following the discussion thread and from what I saw the design issue in question had not been resolved and I think thats what we need to get back to.--[[User:Modelmotion|modelmotion]] 19:59, 22 April 2008 (CDT)

===Solutions===
(''Ignoring the arguing'') Well, I might as well propose a possible solution to the character box problem. Maybe next to Bree's icon there could be a sideways strip of text that says "Characters" something like:

{|cellspacing="0" align="center" style="background-color: transparent;"
|align="center" style="background:#1E2A63; border: 1px solid #1E2A63;width:100px"|'''{{link|link=Characters|text=Characters|color=#ABB8DB}}'''
|}

But, again, on it's side at the end of the row (I'm not exactly sure what the names of the colors used are, so I just used these). --[[User:FH14|FH14]] 08:50, 23 April 2008 (EST)

::or we could add something to an extra icon in the film strip row that would just make it clear the icons are buttoms but still keeping the slick design.--[[User:Modelmotion|modelmotion]] 07:54, 23 April 2008 (CDT)

:::Making my own solution, as it seems graphical options might still be in the realm of confusing, I added some text above the character images explaining that they are, in fact, links. It also doesn't kill the layout all that much, so (assuming it can be considered to do the job), everyone should be happy. - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 10:06, 23 April 2008 (CDT)
::::I like the nice (very small) text that you added. I think it fixes the problem without killing the layout. --Greenie [[User:205.243.71.71|205.243.71.71]] 12:19, 23 April 2008 (CDT)

::I really like the page! --Elphielives

:: On my browser the text "Click on the character's image to go to their page." is burried in the blue so it is not very visible. Try adding it to the perforation below the characters since film actually does have text in the perforation.--[[User:Modelmotion|modelmotion]] 22:16, 23 April 2008 (CDT)

I really, really feel that the pictures next to each video should have the same rollover effect that the character icons do. So...you would roll over the picture, and the black filter and video title would be on the picture. It just kinda throws me off-center when the pictures aren't standard. --[[User:Phisho|Phisho]] 18:33, 23 April 2008 (EST)
:Actually, I was wondering: now that the text is there, do we even need the rollovers? What does everyone else think? Also, mm, could you post a screenshot or something? - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 08:59, 24 April 2008 (CDT)
::I agreed with Phisho. Oh, and Shiori, I LIKE the rollovers. I think they look really good! --[[User:Greenie|Greenie]] 11:36, 24 April 2008 (CST)
:::I also like the rollovers and think that Phisho's idea is good. [[User:Nancypants|Nancypants]] 15:51, 24 April 2008 (CDT)
::The roll overs are good. The only problem with just roll overs is that you have to roll over the icon to see them. What we are trying to do is emphasize the fact that the icons are links when the page opens. One option, as I pointed out earlier would be to add an extra icon before the characters. (I played around with the KM portal and this shows where it could be done. [http://www.lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=User:Modelmotion/exp]. Now right now it is just a black box, but the idea would be to have something that blended in with the film strip but convey that the icons to the right are links that should be clicked. The more subtly that can be done and the more it fits in with the design the better. Perhap an arrow of some kind embossed in the background color. I don't know but it is intended as food for thought.--[[User:Modelmotion|modelmotion]] 18:47, 24 April 2008 (CDT)
:::To be honest, I like the way that was decided on a while ago (having the text that says "Click on the character's image to go to their page." above the images) a lot more than that black box. I just feel that we should make the text slightly bigger. I definitely think that that would get the point across. There's not much more we can do, right?

:::Don't get me wrong, I feel that if the black box is spiced up a little bit more, it could be beautiful, but it looks great now, and I'm not sure anyone needs to do unnecessary work, aye? --[[User:Phisho|Phisho]] 20:03, 24 April 2008 (EST)

:::As I said before i have two concerns with the "Click on the character's image to go to their page". While it is direct it is slightly buried in the design and would be easy to miss. Also as currently positioned the words actually blend into the solid blue in my browser. Since there are other options I think it is worth considering them. Direct designs can get the job done but they are not always the ones that lead to the best interface. To the extent possible a design should be visually intuitive and the right use of visual clues can often be the best solution.--[[User:Modelmotion|modelmotion]] 19:33, 24 April 2008 (CDT)
::::Absolutely, it's hard to see right now. I suggest that we move it to the left of the character icons, increase the font size, and make it black and perhaps bold. It's direct, which is good, and it's hard to miss, which is great. It's also...easy, which is wonderful. --[[User:Phisho|Phisho]] 20:42, 24 April 2008 (EST)

::I think that one of Ren's original concerns was that might affect the esthetic of the design and that is important. These are difficult factors to balance.--[[User:Modelmotion|modelmotion]] 19:59, 24 April 2008 (CDT)

::::Which is a problem in of itself... Ren and I talked over a link icon overlay originally, but that would lead to the problem of, not only looking intrusive, but people ''still'' wouldn't know what it's telling them. The "characters" label, while a nice idea, still leads to the same problem. I don't know, as far as I can see, all of this would still need to be used in conjunction with a secondary solution.
::::I think we might have to just pick a solution and recognize that it's not going to satisfy everyone. The characters link is right there, anyway, for the users who, despite a gigantic bump on the noggin, still can't notice that the images are links. (I've also mulled over the idea of drop shadows and character labels, both of which end up looking horrible and not really helping any more than the solutions already proposed.
::::As for the text that's there currently, I can make it the standard size easily if people think it will help. Bold and black will definitely be negatively affecting the design, as far as I can see, though. And, mm, I shortened the sentence it was using so that ''should'' solve the overlap issue you're getting. (If not, please post a screenshot or something. I've checked the code in Firefox, IE, and Safari and it works for me in each, so I'll be very confused.) - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 20:02, 24 April 2008 (CDT)
:::::Hmmm . . . I like the rollovers as they include the names for each of the characters, so I would keep them even with the new description at the top of the the "filmstrip." As for the color of the text, maybe not black, but something darker, sure (maybe the shade of blue in the Portal banner as opposed to the blue in the filmstrip). --[[User:Phoenician|Pheon]] 02:49, 25 April 2008 (CDT)

::I tried to take the "icon" solution a step further.[http://www.lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=User:Modelmotion/exp] Clearly this is not intended to be a final solution but just a very rough indication of where it could go if someone could develop the right icon.--[[User:Modelmotion|modelmotion]] 04:46, 25 April 2008 (CDT)

:::I can easily make a "characters" icon or something for the bar there (I think it would really need to say that, and not just on a rollover in order to be effective), but I'm not sure it's necessary. If enough people ask for one, I'll make one. - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 05:44, 25 April 2008 (CDT)
::Yea, the rollover is just there because it was in Rens code. I was thinking the word Characters could be written vertically (in a matching color) and the icon be a slimmer strip but with an embossed arrow pointing to the right to give it a sense of movement. Again the idea is to draw the eye to the film strip in a way that creates the impression they are active links. Thats how I think intuitive design should work. --[[User:Modelmotion|modelmotion]] 06:26, 25 April 2008 (CDT)

:::Okay, is anyone up for making said icon to see how it looks, or do people think it's unnecessary? Once we have this worked out, I think we'll be pretty much ready to go live.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 03:05, 29 April 2008 (CDT)

::::I think it's unnecessary. I do, however, think that we should add the rollover effect to the vid list pictures. --[[User:Phisho|Phisho]] 07:13, 29 April 2008 (EST)

:::::The problem with that is that the video images don't actually link to the video pages. So, adding the rollover effect to them will make them look like they do and only confuse people more. And we've considered having the images redirect to the video pages, but that seems to create more problems than it solves. And besides, the title of the video is right there anyway to be clicked on, so it's not like it's missing information like with the character names.--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 07:02, 29 April 2008 (CDT)

::::::I agree with Jon. Stylistically, having a set of images that are rollovers and a set that isnt looks funny (which is why I was wondering if they were even necessary), but having rollovers over there could be potentially more confusing than not. How often do people roll over the video images anyway? I basically ignore them as it stands now... - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 08:19, 29 April 2008 (CDT)
::::::::Ok, I also think that Jons right about the vid images and change my vote about that, however, I think that it's pretty obvious the character pages are rollovers. My friend who had never seen either portal said that she would be able to figure out that they're rollovers and also pointed out that there are no instructions on the current portal to click on the characters image. Her suggestion was to make the pictures a little further apart and to have a box that says "characters" (maybe diagonally but an obvious link) linking to the [[Characters]] page which would lead you to figure out the others are also links. Another thought I just had would be to put the characters name to the left of their picture (our left) vertically, maybe in white(?) My biggest complaint is I hate where it says "click on the characters picture.." because I think it looks sloppy. Just throwing ideas out there, really. [[User:Nancypants|Nancypants]] 21:52, 29 April 2008 (CDT)

:::::::::::Just adding my 2 cents in (from the perspective of someone who loves the lgpedia but doesn't edit). I don't like the "click in characters picture..." as I thinks its obvious that you would do so, it seems kind of patronising. It also looks out of place and doesn't seem to match the rest of the portal. Oh, and I have no idea where to say this so I'll just put it here: Thanks heaps for all the hard work you all do on the lgpedia! [[User:Charlie_star|Charlie_star]] 21:07, 30 April (NZ time)

:::I will try and make an icon when i have time. We have already been over the fact that the currently live page was not perfect and the idea is to solve that problem with the new page (not repeat it).--[[User:Modelmotion|modelmotion]] 18:42, 30 April 2008 (CDT)

[[Image:Text overlap.jpg]] This shows the text overlap with the solid blue.--[[User:Modelmotion|modelmotion]] 18:07, 30 April 2008 (CDT)

:Yah, that's ugly. [[User:Nancypants|Nancypants]] 18:47, 30 April 2008 (CDT)
::mm, what resolution are you on? I could only get it to do that at something less than 1024x768 (on OSX, since I know that's what you're on). And if you're on a resolution below that, the whole design should like a little odd, to be honest. If it's more than that, I'm just plain confused. - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 09:33, 1 May 2008 (CDT)
:::::::::::::::::Yep, 1024x768.--[[User:Modelmotion|modelmotion]] 20:39, 1 May 2008 (CDT)

:::If someone could make an icon, that'd be great, since I think it would look less tacky than the text, although I suppose that will do if we can't get a good icon. I'm not exactly a design person myself, but I know some of you could make something that would look really good. So, thanks in advance guys!--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 12:41, 1 May 2008 (CDT)

::::I made one (it's not the greatest in the world, it's more just a mockup), but I still don't think it's making the icons any more intuitive... - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 12:55, 1 May 2008 (CDT)

:::::That's what I get for not looking at the page before I post :p. And I think it has potential. What do others think?--[[User:Jonpro|Jonpro]] 15:11, 1 May 2008 (CDT)
:::::I agree, that looks way better, definitely on the right track! [[User:Nancypants|Nancypants]] 19:07, 1 May 2008 (CDT)

::::::I think it does help suggest the line of icons is character links. The text could be clearer and the arrow could be slicker.....perhaps a single solid triangle. I like how you made it fit in with the overall design.--[[User:Modelmotion|modelmotion]] 20:32, 1 May 2008 (CDT)

:::::::I like it, but the image should link to http://www.lg15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=Lonelygirl15_characters. And...I'm still pulling for the rollover effect on the vid list, but I can stop fighting if most people agree with Jon.

:::::::By the way, the vid images COULD link to the actual pages. I'm just not sure how much work it would be. I think it would look better, stylistically, and I really want to make that known. However, I'm terrible at coding, and if it's too much work to fix all of that, I'll drop it. -- [[User:Phisho|Phisho]] 23:00, 1 May 2008 (EST)

:::::::Okay, I changed the characters bit to text (especially since it's just all-around easier) and put in a unicode arrow. Does everyone agree that's better? And, more importantly, does that solve the whole "these are links" issue enough to remove the "click" text? - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 09:40, 2 May 2008 (CDT)

:::: I like the solid triangle. If we could create an alternate with just the triangle I think that MIGHT be a viable solution. What we are playing with here is very subtle visual clues. Having the word character there certainly clarifies it, but it might just be overkill for what is needed. I think we can keep the idea of the direct method ("Click a character's image to go to their page.") as a "plan B" if we get feedback that it needs more once it goes live.--[[User:Modelmotion|modelmotion]] 14:21, 2 May 2008 (CDT)

:::::I think you might be right about the Characters text. I made the alternative with just the arrow on the KM Portal redesign because I figured a picture might be a little confusing (at least how I was planning on doing it). So compare: The current design (with the characters text) and [[User:Renegade/Portal:KateModern|The KM design]] (using just the arrow). What does everyone think? The arrow still links to the Characters page, BTW. - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 14:40, 2 May 2008 (CDT)

::I think the design on the LG15 page works better in terms of the arrow. The way the curve draws your eye in, and then the arrow points to the characters just seems to flow. I think all we need to do is test out the current LG15 design without the actual word "characters" and I think we might have a great solution. In comparison the design on the KM page does not have the same organic flow to it.--[[User:Modelmotion|modelmotion]] 14:57, 2 May 2008 (CDT)

:::I have no idea what you're talking about with the KM page, considering they're exactly the same, but I changed the current layout to use solely the arrow. - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 15:00, 2 May 2008 (CDT)

::::Dratz, I wanted to get a screen capture of the last version so that I could show you what I meant but it does not show up in the history because of how wiki works. Could you put back the version with the word character so I can screen capture it, or can you just post that icon below. Basically I thought it drew in the optical sensor (eye for you humans) better with more of the curve showing as it was with the word character present and then the triangle worked to move the eye to the character icons. The current version does not do that.--[[User:Modelmotion|modelmotion]] 16:05, 2 May 2008 (CDT)

:::::Done. Do you mean maybe that the arrow just shouldn't be aligned vertically to the middle? 'Cause that would be an easy fix... BTW, mm, "you humans"? You trying to tell us something? :P - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 16:41, 2 May 2008 (CDT)

[[Image:Portal trial.jpg]] Thanks. This gives you an idea of what I thought would work visually.--[[User:Modelmotion|modelmotion]] 18:19, 2 May 2008 (CDT)

::::::OH. I see. MM, you're getting things rendered differently than everyone else. (I noticed this in Safari a few weeks ago and ''thought'' I had fixed it.) Normal browsers are rendering the characters images all on the right. Let me see if I can fix it and then you can see if you still feel the same way. - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 18:41, 2 May 2008 (CDT)

:::::::Okay, it's working properly in Safari. Of course, now I've brought back an old bug that caused the problem in the first place. I'll see if I can fix that, but in the mean time, make judgments based off of the proper layout design. Stupid Safari anomalies... - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 19:19, 2 May 2008 (CDT)

[[Image:Portal render safari.jpg]] That is how it renders on Safari now. Now with that version I would think you might try the triangle a darker blue without the word "characters".--[[User:Modelmotion|modelmotion]] 19:32, 2 May 2008 (CDT)

::I really like the way it looks right now on the page, even with the "click on the characters..." thing. As long as it's not overlapping the dark blue I think it looks good. When it overlaps is when it looks kind of sloppy, but that might just be my computer/browser(?). Anyway, I think it looks best right now. [[User:Nancypants|Nancypants]] 19:43, 2 May 2008 (CDT)

:::Okay, I got the bug out again, but it's still there for Safari. (If you're interested, the "bug" was more of a design flaw that when the browser window gets below a certain aspect ratio, the character row juts out, covering up the links on the left.) Anyway, I got rid of the Characters text and made the arrow about the darkest color I'm comfortable with.
:::Nancy, I've tried to fix the text thing by putting a white background up there, but that looks even worse. Where it's at right now, if it's overlapping, the whole design should be getting some serious overlap. So it can either be left as-is or be relegated to an "if needed" status. - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 20:00, 2 May 2008 (CDT)
::::Well it isn't overlapping to me anymore, I think it all looks really good, but without the word "Characters" doesn't the triangle/arrow seem kind of random? [[User:Nancypants|Nancypants]] 20:31, 2 May 2008 (CDT)
:::::I think the triangle serves its purpose as a visual clue to draw your attention to the fact their is something special about the icon strip. I think deductively people will conclude they are active links but we can probably only test that out on the wider community. I think the text is a good back up if we find that readers are not following the visual clue. Does Media Wiki have any analytics that will tell us if people are clicking on the icons?--[[User:Modelmotion|modelmotion]] 14:48, 3 May 2008 (CDT)

::::::So wait...on one hand, you're arguing we need visual clues because the users are too retarded to click "Characters" when they want character information, but on the other hand, you're arguing they're smart enough to "deductively [...] conclude [the icons] are active links"?
::::::You people are fucking ridiculous.
:::::::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 19:20, 3 May 2008 (CDT)
::::I think we were actually trying to respect the original design by offering a visual clue that would have minimal impact yet suggest that the icons were something that are more than just pictures. If we failed to do that to your satisfaction just say so.--[[User:Modelmotion|modelmotion]] 19:39, 3 May 2008 (CDT)

[[Image:Portal latest copy.jpg]] The latest version as rendered by Safari.--[[User:Modelmotion|modelmotion]] 19:45, 3 May 2008 (CDT)

:::::"Minimal impact" - yeah, blue stuff in the middle of the whitespace is very subtle, thank you. You ignored my point, though (why am I not surprised?) - you ''cannot'' argue that way. Either you assume the users are smart, then we don't need this bullshit because they're smart enough to click "Characters" for character information, or you assume they're retarded, then you can't go with solutions that need deduction and conclusions.
:::::Pick a side.
::::::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 19:50, 3 May 2008 (CDT)
::::::It is simply a question of whether the design leads the mind to the correct conclusion or not. That is why the Mac user interface dominates the world today. Remember that windows had to copy it. Of course Apple copied it from Xerox but thats beside the point. Good design just works.--[[User:Modelmotion|modelmotion]] 20:34, 3 May 2008 (CDT)

:::::::As far as I can see, Vista looks like KDE with Compiz(Fusion), and doesn't have a dock. So other than copying the basic layout some 20 years ago (a layout that was obviously focused away from in favor of the dock by Apple), I don't see much stealing going on in the interface. Not to say that especially Vista's interface isn't annoying - I just don't see that alleged dominance you speak of.
:::::::But, all of that is besides the point - the point is, hypothetical conclusions are irrelevant. If you assume the users are smart enough to draw conclusions from anything, then you assume the users are smart enough to click "Characters" if they need character information. Which means, although it may be unfortunate if they overlooked the header links, it's no big deal.
:::::::If you assume they're too stupid to click a link named "Characters" for character information and need largely pointed out links instead, then they're too stupid to draw conclusions from anything but a giant red arrow as well.
:::::::So - pause your fanboyism for a moment and decide what user you are designing for instead: Does he have a brain and can read, or not?
::::::::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 22:11, 3 May 2008 (CDT)
::: I think you miss the point of having a good user interface. Ideally it should work well for all users and that is what we are trying to achieve here.--[[User:Modelmotion|modelmotion]] 23:39, 3 May 2008 (CDT)

::::You are still avoiding answering me - are you designing for retarded users or for smart users?
:::::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 03:29, 4 May 2008 (CDT)
====Take Two====
Okay, ignoring the dick contest above, does everyone think the layout '''as it is now''' properly conveys that those icons are clickable. (We're not going into whether this is necessary or not. Certain people think it is, so for the time being, it is.) Note: We are not talking about design issues here ''other than the character icons''. ONLY BRING UP ISSUES WITH THE CHARACTER ICONS OR I WILL MOVE YOUR COMMENT SOMEWHERE ELSE. Voting Yes or No (with an explanation following) would probably help this thing get moving along faster, so if you could do that, that would be awesome. Thanks, guys. - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 12:04, 4 May 2008 (CDT)
:'''Yes.''' I think the design manages to communicate that the icons are click able. If someone still fails to recognize them as links, then they can just use the "Characters" link listed on the left column. --[[User:FH14|FH14]] 13:30, 4 May 2008 (EST)

:'''No.''' It is not a "dick contest", it's a fucking legitimate question - this entire discussion exists because Zoey (who, surprise!, has been absent from this discussion) assumes the general user is too retarded to click "Characters" for character information. If your solution to the problem now admittedly requires the user to stop and think for a moment, then this solution is, in required brain capacity, absolutely equivalent to what we had before, this entire discussion was redundant, and your fuck-up of the layout serves no purpose at all and does not fix the problem.
:Zoey stopped the redesign and aggressively reverted it because she wanted a no-brainer. If your solution admittedly requires "deductively [...] conclud[ing] [the icons] are active links", then ''it does not fulfil the requirements that made this discussion necessary in the first place''. If you assume the user can think, a link "Characters" for character information is 100% enough, and there is no reason to fuck up the layout. If you assume the user can ''not'' think, a solution that requires "deductively [...] conclud[ing] [the icons] are active links" is unacceptable.
::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 13:21, 4 May 2008 (CDT)

::You know, Ren, I wasn't referring to the icon thing being the dick contest, I was more referring to how you and mm were arguing about OSX for whatever reason... I agree with your stance, but like I said, since someone higher than all of us has already dictated something else is necessary, there's not much point to complaining about it. As for Zoey, she's basically relegated the whole redesign's moving forward to Jon and Pheon's opinions. So stop complaining about her and start catering to them. :P - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 13:50, 4 May 2008 (CDT)

:::Yeah, because creating a redesign by custom-fitting it to the administrators' personal tastes is so very much community based. *rolleyes*
::::~ [[User:Renegade|Renegade]] ([[User talk:Renegade|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Renegade|contribs]]) 14:45, 4 May 2008 (CDT)
:Ok...I'm going to give my two cents here. Its probably not worth much, but whatever. I just want to say that I've edited the LGpedia maybe once...so I'm mostly a lurker around here. I think you guys are making too much a fuss over a tiny little thing. Most people ''will'' be able to figure out that the pictures are links without direction, but getting confirmation from a little text ("Click the character's icons blahblahblah") is nice too. Personally, I like it without the text, but that's just me. Honestly? I don't think the visitors will care if there's text or not. I don't.
:So in short...simmer down. Please. I think everyone would benefit from it. --[[User:Ordinarylucy|Ordinarylucy]] 17:42, 4 May 2008 (CDT)
:I like the cleanness of the pic without the text, but i think the text is necessary because most people will not easily figure out the pics are links. bruce hornsby told me, that's just the way it is. --[[User:Milowent|Milowent]] 22:58, 4 May 2008 (CDT)
::I resent being called a dick or the implication that I was involved in a dick contest.. I raised the Mac user interface because it was instrumental in the progress of the graphical computer user interface and I was making a point, which was perfectly valid in the context of the discussion. If others decide to take the discussion off in an irrelevant tangent please do not associate me with that part of the discussion. If you read the threat my comments stuck strictly to the topic on hand.--[[User:Modelmotion|modelmotion]] 00:13, 5 May 2008 (CDT)

:::Fine. mm, Ren, I'm sorry. I'm just getting irritated by this whole thing. We currently have three "yes"e, one "no", and a "sort of". Two people like the text, so it'll probably end up staying. I'll wait for more responses obviously, but it looks like the text will stay, and a few more people commenting will make this be able to go up that much faster. ''Any admins are more than welcome to comment...'' *cough**cough* - [[User:Shiori|Shiori]] 06:58, 5 May 2008 (CDT)
::::I have to agree with Ordinarylucy that this has become more of an issue than it has to be (I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, so please don't accuse me of doing so). Truthfully, I think most users will be able to figure out that the images are links without the visual cues, but it never hurts to have them if we get a user who is not the brightest bulb on the tree. --[[User:FH14|FH14]] 5 May 2008 (EST)

I tend to look at things more in terms of Monte Carlo analysis. If you look at the probability of a new user discovering that the icons are clickable (in a reasonably short margin of time) it might look something like this:
*Original design 50%
*Original design with blue triangle added 80%
*Original design with blue triangle and text added 95%
Now I am sure you would all have your own views of the probabilities but that is not the point. The point is that we need to balance the incremental impact a design element has against its utility. The only way you would probably reach closer to 100% would be to add a really large sign and an arrow saying the icons are clickable. Clearly that would not look good. The only way we could determine accurate probabilities would be by testing out each design scientifically and I really don't think we need to go that far.--[[User:Modelmotion|modelmotion]] 09:01, 5 May 2008 (CDT)
::I may have already said this, but it's been changed so many times I'm not sure. Anyway, I think that how it looks ''right now'' is best. Rollover on the vids would be overkill IMO. [[User:Nancypants|Nancypants]] 22:01, 6 May 2008 (CDT)

So, I just want to say a couple things. First of all, I think that the rollovers, text and arrow have made it clear that the images are clickable--all set on that front. I DO think it's important to perfect the page, and I think its gotten about as good as it will. I do not, however, see the necessity in all the bickering. I really wish it could be slightly more civil and more importantly, on topic. I hate to say this, especially since I don't know Renegade or any of the admins and havent encountered them before this page, therefore I dont know anything about you guys...but I think most of the arguing problems here stem from you Renegade. Sorry :/ It just seems like you have a really bad attitude and are taking out your personal problems with Zoey out on all of us. Please, for the sake of the wiki, and the lgpedia and the whole community (also the young users who are exposed to the disrespectful language on this page) I personally would really appreciate it if you'd focus on the task at hand and not argue. I'm not admin or mod or anyone important, I am just asking on behalf of the community as just an "average joe" among us. Thanks, sorry for the long post. [[User:Abslch|Abslch]] 5:31, 9 May 2008 (EST)

User talk:Renegade/Portal:Lonelygirl15

2008-05-09T21:31:20Z

24.41.31.80:

User talk:Renegade/Portal:Lonelygirl15

2008-05-09T21:30:25Z

24.41.31.80:

Hot Tacos

2008-04-29T22:27:58Z

24.41.31.80: /* Notes */

{{Blog
| name = {{PAGENAME}}
| number = 470
| image = 0470-TaagLaughing.jpg
| caption = Spotted Dick ''hahaha''
| blogger = Jonas
| date = 20080429
| url = {{lg15|577}}
| forumid = 17236
| length = 3:47
| description = Steve was shot. We couldn't leave him.
| location = West Hills Hospital, [[Beaches|A beach]]
| tags = {{tags|lonelygirl15|LG15|KateModern|bree|danielbeast|jonastko|steve|hymn of one}}{{tags|}}


| execprod =
| coexecprod =
| assocprod =
| serprod =
| producers =
| lineprod =
| supprod =
| directors =
| camera =
| vidplay =
| headwriter =
| story =
| editor =
| pm =
| ps =
| pa =
| pr =
| ipa =
| animation =
| prodserv =
| music supervisor =

| song =
| cast =
{{VidChar|Jennie}}
{{VidChar|Jonas}}
{{VidChar|Daniel}}
{{VidChar|Steve}}
{{VidChar|Gina}}

| Previous = Crazy Border Crossing!!
| Next =
| PreviousB = Outta Here
| NextB =
}}
{{Crossover
|series = km
|epnum = 247
|eplength = 3:47
|epdate = 20080429
}}

==Transcript==
(''The camera pans down from the sky to a hospital and zooms in on the entrance''.)

'''Jennie:''' Jonas...

'''Jonas:''' Hmm? (''Turns the camera to Jennie''.)

'''Jennie:''' You sure Steve's okay?

'''Jonas:''' Well, his cell phone goes straight to voicemail, but the hospital said he was being released... I'm sure he's pissed off that we left him behind, but, well, physically? Yeah. I, uh, think he's okay.

'''Jennie:''' That's not what I meant. You just seem so sure we can trust him.

'''Jonas:''' Oh, Jennie, please. Come on, not you, too. Alright, look: without Steve, I wouldn't have made it in London.

'''Jennie:''' Right. I saw [[Raise The Roof|how you made it]].

'''Jonas:''' Oh-ho-ho-ho; that is not fair. That is not fair and you know it.

'''Jennie:''' Isn't it? (''Scoffs''.) [[Escape to London|You said]] you were going to London to deal with your past so that you could move on.

'''Jonas:''' Yeah, and I meant it. I-I j- Look, I swear!

'''Daniel:''' Hey, hey, hey... (''Jonas pans to Daniel sitting the car looking at his laptop''.) The partial license plate we got? Jennie was right; the Cali Zed means it's a California government plate. But the EPS prefix? That's secret service issue.

'''Jonas:''' Meaning?

'''Daniel:''' Meaning whoever tried to kill us yesterday is high up in the government. We ''gotta'' get outta here.

'''Jennie:''' I think it's too late.

(''Jonas pans over to see a black SUV approaching the hospital''.)

'''Jennie:''' Oh god, it's so close...

'''Jonas:''' Whoah, it's the same car! Get down!

'''Daniel:''' We gotta go. We can come back.

'''Jonas:''' No. What if Steve comes out? We can't leave him again. Jennie, Jennie.

(''Daniel groans and Jonas hands his phone to Jennie. She calls Steve while watching the car''.)

'''Jennie:''' No, it just went straight to voicemail.

'''Daniel:''' Oh my god...

(''Jonas pans up to the SUV in front of the hospital''.)

'''Jonas:''' He's circling. [[Four-letter words|Shit]]!

(''Cut to Steve on his cell phone, standing in front of the hospital entrance''.)

'''Jennie:''' Look, there's Steve right there! He's on the phone.

'''Daniel:''' Okay, give me the camera.

(''Jonas gives the camera to Daniel''.)

'''Jonas:''' Alright, I gotta get to Steve before this car circles again.

'''Jennie:''' No, no, no! He's coming back!

(''Jonas ducks near a car as the SUV passes in front of the hospital again''.)

'''Jonas:''' Okay, I'm going.

(''Jonas runs across the street, with Daniel and Jennie following. He runs to Steve and they run back to the parking lot. Jonas leads them to duck behind a tree as the SUV passes by again''.)

'''Jennie:''' (''Whispering''.) Okay, he's coming back... (''The SUV leaves''.) Okay. Okay, I got the license plate.

'''Steve:''' What's going on?

'''Daniel:''' Come on, let's go.

'''Steve:''' What happened?

'''Daniel:''' Let's go!

'''Steve:''' Geez...

(''Jonas leads the way back to the car. Jonas works on opening the driver's side door and Steve stops''.)

'''Jonas:''' Let's go, man-

'''Steve:''' What the hell's going on?

'''Jonas:''' Just get in the car!

(''Daniel races around to get into the car. Cut to a shot of a seagull flying near the moon in the sky. Waves are heard as the seagull flies to a flock on the sand. Cut to a pan shot of the beach. Cut to Jonas talking to the camera''.)

'''Jonas:''' Hey, Steve? Um, listen, I just want to explain. Yesterday? It was chaos and w- and we called 911 and... and we went back for you, but... you know, you were gone.

'''Steve:''' I know, mate.

'''Jonas:''' You just-

'''Steve:''' You came back for me today, am I right? (''Jonas smiles and Steve turns the camera on himself''.) Am I right? (''Turns the camera back to Jonas, who laughs''.)

'''Jonas:''' Alright, well, cheers to that. (''Clinks his bottle of beer with the camera''.)

(''Cut to Gina, Daniel, and Jennie talking on the beach. Steve zooms out and steps in front of the camera''.)

'''Steve:''' Daniel got in touch with their friend - [[Taylor]], I think the name was - uh, in Texas. Some computer hacker genius. He's given her the license plate number to see what she can do with it. Who's ever after us means business. But until then, it's ___.

(''Steve smiles and lowers the camera. Cut to Jennie filming as Daniel, Gina, Jonas, and Steve have a picnic on the beach''.)

'''Jennie:''' Hey, guys!

'''Jonas:''' Hey!

(''Jennie sets the camera down and goes to sit behind Steve''.)

'''Jonas:''' So, cheers to America, land of burgers and fries. 'Cept actually all I've eaten so far is Mexican.

'''Jonas:''' Uh, yeah, well, I had to eat that dessert; the, uh... (''Laughs''.) You know, I'm not even gonna say the name of it.

'''Steve:''' "Spotted dick"?

'''Jonas:''' Yeah. (''Everyone laughs''.) I don't get you English. You have a dessert called "dick". It's weird. It's not right.

'''Steve:''' It was good, though, wasn't it?

'''Jonas:''' Can we please not talk about spotted dick? (''Everyone laughs''.) You know, when I was in London, I had to eat that. You come here, you eat like a king for five bucks, man.

'''Steve:''' I admit, these spicy tacos washed down with a nice Mexican beer... (''Drinks from his bottle''.) Cold beer, hot food... I could get used to this. (''Looks around''.) And this.

'''Jonas:''' Cheers.

'''Steve:''' Cheers. (''Clinks bottles with Jonas''.)

==Notes==
*Daniel is still [[beer|drinking]] despite his problems in [[Beach Party]].
*Daniel wears a [[cap]].
*TAAG is shown on the beach; proximity to [[water theme|water]] has been thematically linked to imminent danger in previous videos.
*TAAG's nonchalant attitude towards Steve's trip to the hospital is inconsistent with previous videos, notably [[Flesh Wound]], in which they were so afraid of [[the Order]] finding them at a hospital, they took Jonas to the veterinarian after he stabbed his hand.

User talk:Renegade/Portal:Lonelygirl15

2008-04-29T01:18:32Z

24.41.31.80: /* Comments */

User talk:Renegade/Portal:Lonelygirl15

2008-04-29T01:18:00Z

24.41.31.80: /* Comments */

User talk:Renegade/Portal:Lonelygirl15

2008-04-29T01:17:40Z

24.41.31.80: /* Comments */

KIDNAPPED!

2008-01-13T05:50:26Z

24.41.31.80: /* Notes */

{{Blog
| name = KIDNAPPED!
| number = 395
| image = 0395-DrHartLookingScraggly.jpg
| caption = Maybe he ''has'' been to Africa lately?
| blogger = Jennie
| date = January 11th, 2008
| url = {{lg15|477}}
| forumid = 15676
| length = 2:40
| description = I'm SCARED-CONFUSED-ANGRY-<br>TIRED-PARANOID-UPSET-ALONE
| location = [[Lullaby Project]]
| tags = {{tags|lonelygirl15|lg15|jonastko|danielbeast|soccerstar4ever|bree|fire}}



| execprod =
| coexecprod =
| assocprod =
| serprod =
| producers =
| lineprod =
| supprod =
| directors =
| camera =
| vidplay =
| headwriter =
| story =
| editor =
| pm =
| ps =
| pa =
| pr =
| ipa =
| animation =
| prodserv =
| music supervisor =

| song =
| cast = {{VidChar|Jennie|Melanie Merkosky}}
{{VidChar|Jonas}}
{{VidChar|Emma}}
{{VidChar|Dr. Hart|Sean Vincent Biggins}}
{{VidChar|Watcher|Greg Goodfried}}
{{VidChar|Lucy|Amanda Goodfried}}
{{VidChar|Gina|Cameos#Crystal Young{{!}}Crystal Young}}

| Previous = Looking For A Date
| Next =

| PreviousB = Party of One
| NextB =
| PreviousC =
| NextC =
}}
{{EpHeader|395}}

==Transcript==
(''Pan right as Jonas follows Emma downhill in a completely burned landscape. Jonas has a gun tucked in the back of his pants.'')

'''Jonas:''' (''turns back toward camera'') Watch out... you okay?

'''Jonas:''' Emma, I'm only going to say this one more time. This is stupid.

(''They continue to follow a small stream bed between two burnt hills.'')

'''Emma:''' I know it was in his handwriting. Jonas, if Dr. Hart wants to meet us at the village, then I'm going to go.

'''Jonas:''' Yeah, but the ... Emma, the note was hand delivered by Carl of all people. Carl. Okay, they could have just forced Dr. Hart to write some thing out and...

'''Emma:''' Jonas! Dr. Hart risked his life to protect me, to take care of me when I was sick. I owe him this, please. (''turning toward camera'') We all do.

'''Jennie:''' (''holding camera'') Guys, what's that smell?

'''Jonas:''' Smoke, it smells like smoke. Emma hold on a minute. (''runs to catch up with Emma'') Emma, Emma, just please wait. Think about this.

(''camera pans up hill close to ground, showing sheets of loose paper on the burnt ground ... Dr. Hart comes into view'')

'''Emma:''' (''runs up hill toward Dr. Hart, disheveled, discards a piece of paper'') Dr. Hart! ...

'''Jonas:''' (''following Emma, trying to catch up'') Emma, get back here!

'''Emma:''' Wait!

'''Jonas:''' (''reaching for his gun, stumbling'') Wait for me!

(''Emma reaches Dr. Hart, who looks lost, hugging him as Jonas arrives'')

'''Dr. Hart:''' I'm sorry.

'''Jonas:''' Are you shot? What happened?

'''Dr. Hart:''' (''whimpering'') I'm sorry, I didn't... I didn't have a choice.

'''Jonas:''' What are you talking about? Talk to us.

'''Dr. Hart:''' (''face to face close to Emma'') Run as fast as you can.

(''a black SUV arrives at the top of the hill in the background'')

'''Jonas:''' (''points gun at the car'') Get back.

'''Emma:''' What? Who is that? Oh, no.

'''Jonas:''' Oh shit, oh shit, oh shit.

'''Watcher:''' (''gets out of the car with Lucy close behind him, pointing a gun at Jonas'') Jonas, put down the gun.

'''Jonas:''' Put your gun down, okay, we don't have to do this.

'''Watcher:''' Don't be an idiot.

'''Jonas:''' I'm not going to be an idiot, but we can talk this out, okay? So just...

'''Watcher:''' It was Dr. Hart's idea, not ours. (''Lucy circles around the SUV'')

'''Emma:''' What? guys... (''Dr. Hart is crouching down, looking up at Emma'')

'''Watcher:''' Lucy!

'''Emma:''' Guys

'''Jonas:''' What the hell is going on? Dr. Hart, what the hell is going on? What is he talking about?

(''Lucy opens rear passenger side door of SUV'')

'''Emma:''' Oh my...

'''Dr. Hart:''' Gina! (''Gina emerges from the SUV and runs down the hill to Dr. Hart while Jonas turns to watch them, the Watcher sneaks up on Jonas.'')

'''Gina:''' Dr. Hart, oh... (''hugging him'')

'''Watcher:''' Jonas! (''pistol whipping Jonas, knocking him out'')

'''Jennie:''' Jonas!

'''Emma:''' Jonas, oh my god! (''Lucy grabs Emma while Dr. Hart and Gina head for the SUV with the Watcher standing by.'')

'''Watcher:''' Get her out of here. (''Lucy drags Emma away'')

'''Emma:''' Jonas!

'''Jennie:''' Emma, Emma!

'''Watcher:''' (''pointing gun at Jennie, backing away'') Stay. Stay there.

'''Jennie:''' (''kneeling next to the prone Jonas'') Emma! Jonas can you hear me? Emma! Jonas, get up! Emma! (''cries as SUV peels out'')

==Notes==
*This video was originally posted three times as video 398, 399, and 400.
*This video reveals that Gina is still alive.
*It may seem as though Dr. Hart betrayed Jonas, Emma, and Jennie, but he keeps saying sorry as though he was forced to make this decision, so he very well may have been blackmailed into giving Emma up to the order.
*It still has not been made clear where Gina has been for six years, but she's clean in contrast to Dr. Hart, so we can assume they were held in significantly different areas.
*It is possible that Dr. Hart agreed to betray Jonas, Emma and Jennie in return for being able to see Gina again.

School's Out

2007-11-01T20:09:26Z

24.41.31.80: /* Transcript */

{{Blog
| name = School’s Out
| number = 335
| image = 0335-DelMundoHatesDaniel.jpg
| caption = It'll make you go blind too, Daniel.
| blogger = Daniel
| date = October 31st, 2007
| url = {{lg15|410}}
| forumid = 14768
| length = 1:47
| description = So I tried to get back into class, but... Well, you'll
see.
| location = Professor DelMundo's Office, [[The rented house]]
| tags = {{tags|lonelygirl15|lg15|danielbeast|daniel|jonas|jonastko|soccerstar|hymnofone|order}}



| execprod =
| coexecprod =
| assocprod =
| serprod =
| producers =
| lineprod =
| directors =
| camera =
| vidplay =
| headwriter =
| story =
| editor =
| pm =
| ps =
| pa =
| pr =
| ipa =
| animation =
| prodserv =
| music supervisor =

| song =
| cast = {{VidChar|Daniel}}
{{VidChar|Professor DelMundo}}

| Previous = Around the World
| Next = School’s In

| PreviousB = What's Going on?
| NextB =
| PreviousC =
| NextC =
}}
{{EpHeader|335|School’s Out}} This video is correctly called "School’s Out", with a punctuation apostrophe ('''’''') instead of a typewriter apostrophe - it resides here for easier accessibility.

==Transcript==
(''Daniel is sitting with Professor DelMundo in his office.'')

'''Professor DelMundo:''' So, Daniel, tell me. Why should I let you back in?

(''Cuts to Daniel sitting in his room in the rented house.'')

'''Daniel:''' That's Professor DelMundo, my film teacher. Ex-teacher. I figure, now that everything's relatively back to normal, I'll try and get back in class. Again. Unfortunately...

(''Cuts back to DelMundo's office.'')

'''Professor DelMundo:''' I can't teach you. Because to teach you, I'd have to take you seriously. And for me to take you seriously, ''you'' have to take you seriously.

(''Cuts back to Daniel's room.'')

'''Daniel:''' When I tried showing him the videos on the site, he wouldn't even look at them.

(''Cuts back to DelMundo's office.'')

'''Professor DelMundo:''' Film, Daniel. This is a film class. Not a "hand everybody a camera and let them masturbate on [[YouTube]]" class. The San Fernando Junior College has a long tradition of turning out cinematic storytellers. Award winners, like myself.

(''Cuts back to Daniel's room.'')

'''Daniel:''' You know what? I have seen his work. His "work."

(''Cuts to a black and white film for which DelMundo does the voiceover.'')

'''Professor DelMundo (''in voiceover''):''' The lovers meet. In the quiet of the night. Deep in the stillness of each others' hearts. But the stillness is not just. And their hearts are not their own. And their love is not the truth. It is blackness. It is desperation.

'''Spanish Voiceover:''' Los amantes se encuentran. En la quietud de la noche. Hondo en el sereno de sus propios corazones. ''(inintelligible because of the english voiceover)'' en la paz. Y sus corazones no les pertenecen. Y su amor no es la verdad. Es negra oscuridad. Es desesperación.

(''Cuts back to Daniel in his room.'')

'''Daniel:''' Which leads me to my big revelation. I don't need film school to learn my craft. You know who else didn't need film school? Tarantino, Soderbergh, Linklater, Spike Jones. Hell, when John Ford and Frank Capra were out there making movies, and all those other guys, do you think there was even such a thing as film school? No. And what'd they come out with? Amazing movies. "Resevoir Dogs," "Traffic," "Waking Life," "It's A Wonderful Life." Versus what? "Pearl Harbor?" "Norbit?" "Rush Hour 3?" You know what, I should thank you, Professor DelMundo. Thank you. Because without your pompous-ass, crappy, award-winning film, I might have spent the next two years of my life ''wasted'' in your stupid class.

==Notes==
* The "masturbate on YouTube" comment from Professor DelMundo (which means "of the world" in Spanish) may be a dig at the [[WeepingWillow17]] spoof of lonelygirl15 done by the television show Law & Order, where in one scene a film professor berated a student called "Miles" for the "visual masturbation" of his editing style: {{youtube|eBoUBe4yqLw|Clip criticizing "Miles"}}
* Professor DelMundo is played by [[Marcello Daciano]], who has directed many lonelygirl15 videos. Thus, he is poking at himself by criticizing Daniel.
*Daniel is seen wearing his [[snake eyes]] t-shirt in this video.
*Daniel appears to be caught up in [[cap]] fever.

[[Category:Videos not saved under their official title]]

School's In

2007-11-01T20:05:00Z

24.41.31.80: /* Transcript */

{{Blog
| name = {{PAGENAME}}
| number = 336
| image = 0336-DanielandMalloryontheBed.jpg
| caption = Does Daniel really want to know what a Cafe De Leche is?
| blogger = Daniel
| date = October 31st, 2007
| url = {{lg15|411}}
| forumid = 14769
| length = 0:47
| description = Oops...
| location = [[The rented house]]
| tags = {{tags|lonelygirl15|lg15|danielbeast|daniel|jonas|jonastko|soccerstar|hymnofone|order}}



| execprod =
| coexecprod =
| assocprod =
| serprod =
| producers =
| lineprod =
| directors =
| camera =
| vidplay =
| headwriter =
| story =
| editor =
| pm =
| ps =
| pa =
| pr =
| ipa =
| animation =
| prodserv =
| music supervisor =

| song =
| cast = {{VidChar|Daniel}}
{{VidChar|Mallory}}

| Previous = School's Out
| Next =

| PreviousB =
| NextB =
| PreviousC =
| NextC =
}}
{{EpHeader|336}}

==Transcript==
'''Daniel:''' Oops.

'''Mallory:''' Understatement.

'''Daniel:''' I'm an idiot.

'''Mallory:''' A dope.

'''Daniel:''' A moron.

'''Mallory:''' A dork.

'''Daniel:''' A loser.

'''Mallory:''' A fool. A geek. A nerd. A...

'''Daniel:''' 'Nuff?

'''Mallory:''' Okay, tell them why, honey.

'''Daniel:''' Mallory decided to take [[Professor DelMundo]] to coffee.

'''Mallory:''' You mean, the stuck-up Professor DelMundo? The one with the crappy film and the stupid class?

'''Daniel:''' Uh-huh. And she ''somehow'' got him to let me back in.

'''Mallory:''' Now, how do we feel about this?

'''Daniel:''' I would say... like this! (''Begins kissing her arm.'')

'''Mallory:''' Oh. Oh. (''Giggles. Daniel begins kissing her face and she starts laughing harder.'')

'''Daniel:''' Just like that.

'''Mallory:''' Yeah.

'''Daniel:''' Let's hope he never sees the video, though.

'''Mallory:''' Yeah, let's.

'''Daniel:''' Let's.

'''Mallory:''' Because I'm sick and tired of buying him Cafe De Leches, and you can't afford to take me out to any more nice restaurants for nice dinners.

'''Daniel:''' Who said anything about nice restaurants or nice dinners?

(''Daniel looks at Mallory and the two begin kissing again.'')

==Notes==
* This video was officially posted exactly two hours after the prior video, [[School's Out]]. However, for a short time on YouTube, this video was available out of sequence before School's Out, and was then made private.

School's In

2007-11-01T20:03:33Z

24.41.31.80: /* Transcript */

{{Blog
| name = {{PAGENAME}}
| number = 336
| image = 0336-DanielandMalloryontheBed.jpg
| caption = Does Daniel really want to know what a Cafe De Leche is?
| blogger = Daniel
| date = October 31st, 2007
| url = {{lg15|411}}
| forumid = 14769
| length = 0:47
| description = Oops...
| location = [[The rented house]]
| tags = {{tags|lonelygirl15|lg15|danielbeast|daniel|jonas|jonastko|soccerstar|hymnofone|order}}



| execprod =
| coexecprod =
| assocprod =
| serprod =
| producers =
| lineprod =
| directors =
| camera =
| vidplay =
| headwriter =
| story =
| editor =
| pm =
| ps =
| pa =
| pr =
| ipa =
| animation =
| prodserv =
| music supervisor =

| song =
| cast = {{VidChar|Daniel}}
{{VidChar|Mallory}}

| Previous = School's Out
| Next =

| PreviousB =
| NextB =
| PreviousC =
| NextC =
}}
{{EpHeader|336}}

==Transcript==
'''Daniel:''' Oops.

'''Mallory:''' Understatement.

'''Daniel:''' I'm an idiot.

'''Mallory:''' A dope.

'''Daniel:''' A moron.

'''Mallory:''' A dork.

'''Daniel:''' A loser.

'''Mallory:''' A fool. A geek. A nerd.

'''Daniel:''' Enough?

'''Mallory:''' Okay, tell them why, honey.

'''Daniel:''' Mallory decided to take [[Professor DelMundo]] to coffee.

'''Mallory:''' You mean, the stuck-up Professor DelMundo? The one with the crappy film and the stupid class?

'''Daniel:''' Uh-huh. And she ''somehow'' got him to let me back in.

'''Mallory:''' Now, how do we feel about this?

'''Daniel:''' I would say... like this! (''Begins kissing her arm.'')

'''Mallory:''' Oh. Oh. (''Giggles. Daniel begins kissing her face and she starts laughing harder.'')

'''Daniel:''' Just like that.

'''Mallory:''' Yeah.

'''Daniel:''' Let's hope he never sees the video, though.

'''Mallory:''' Yeah, let's.

'''Daniel:''' Let's.

'''Mallory:''' Because I'm sick and tired of buying him Cafe De Leches, and you can't afford to take me out to any more nice restaurants for nice dinners.

'''Daniel:''' Who said anything about nice restaurants or nice dinners?

(''Daniel looks at Mallory and the two begin kissing again.'')

==Notes==
* This video was officially posted exactly two hours after the prior video, [[School's Out]]. However, for a short time on YouTube, this video was available out of sequence before School's Out, and was then made private.

Emma's Safe

2007-10-11T00:14:53Z

24.41.31.80: /* Notes */

{{Blog
| name = {{PAGENAME}}
| number = 314
| image = LG314Emma.jpg
| caption = Lying for Claire is making me sick to my stomach!
| blogger = LaRezisto
| date = October 10th, 2007
| url = {{lg15|387}}
| forumid = 14438
| length = 2:36
| description = Emma is safe for now, but not if you come looking for her.
| faction = The Resistance
| status = Public Video
| location =
| tags = {{tags|lonelygirl15|lg15|bree|danielbeast|daniel|jonastko|jonas|soccerstar4ever}}



| execprod =
| coexecprod =
| assocprod =
| serprod =
| producers =
| directors =
| camera =
| vidplay =
| headwriter =
| story =
| editor =
| pm =
| pa =
| pr =
| ipa =
| animation =
| prodserv =
| music supervisor =

| song =
| cast = {{VidChar|Emma}}
{{VidChar|Claire|Shelby Kocee}}

| Previous = Batting Practice
| Next =

| PreviousB = Join Me!
| NextB =
| PreviousC =
| NextC =
}}
{{EpHeader|314}}

==Transcript==
'''Claire:''' The following should be considered as evidence of my good intentions. And as a warning to anyone who might be foolish enough to consider coming after our very special girl.

(''Cut to Emma'')

'''Emma:''' Well, I want everybody to know that I'm okay. Uh... I mean, everybody's been really nice to me here. Um, Claire, she's been really nice to me. I've been spending a lot of time on- (''scene cut'') I don't want you guys to worry about me. So... And we talk; I talk to Claire. And we talk about, like, the Hymn of One; stuff like that. I actually haven't had somebody to talk to about that stuff in a long time. We talk about my family - my first family.

'''Emma:''' (''To Claire, off-camera'') I'm sorry, can we talk about my family?

'''Claire:''' Sure, go ahead, Emma.

'''Emma:''' Okay, so I had a family before Jonas's parents, my first family, about six years ago. And my parents - my new parents - have been great with me over the last six years. I don't want everybody to think that I don't love them or that I don't love being with them, because I do. I love them very much. I was nine, and I had, like, a singing recital at the Hymn of One campus. And my mom dropped me off at, like, a-a dress rehearsal thing. She went home to get dressed and to pick up my dad. (''Emma starts crying.'') They never made it. They were killed in a car accident on the way back on the 405. I was looking for them in the audience; they weren't there. And then I got off to another family! (''scene cut'') I want everybody to know that I wasn't crying because of anything that's happened here - I'm okay.

==Notes==
*This video confirms that Emma is 15 years old.
*The smile at the end of the video seems rather fake, which could either be a sign of lacking acting skills on the actress's part, or, more likely, indicate that Emma is in fact ''not'' okay.
*Some people have theorized that Emma's gestures are not random or unintentional, but that she is attempting to send a message coded in sign language. There appears to be at least (6) distinct signs or phrases at:

'''2:12''' (Right Hand to Ear)
'''2:10''' (Thumb to breastbone-rotating)
'''2:00''' (Right Index finger point up, Left hand up and back to knee, and Right Index finger back to knee)
'''1:50''' (Crossed hands palms down-rubbing)
'''1:31''' (Right hand to back of neck & then out to camera palm up)
'''0:16''' (Right Hand opened up moving diagonal from right shoulder to lap).

* So far, these have not been confirmed or translated.
* Some fans have wondered if Emma has known/remembered her "first family" prior to her encounter and time with Claire or if she has undergone any sort of regression therapy to "recover" her memories.
* Emma looks up distinctly at at least one point in the video (just after touching her ear at 2:12) and at 2:00, she seems to point upwards. Some fans have theorized that the message she is trying to convey has something to do with the upward direction, or somnething that is directly above her.
*The amount of light changes between the short clip of Claire at the beginning and the clip of Emma, indicating that either the lighting was different or the first clip was recorded earlier in the day (i.e. when it was brighter out)

What Happened???

2007-09-11T10:49:53Z

24.41.31.80: /* Notes */

{{Blog
| name = {{PAGENAME}}
| number = 0284
| image = 0284-WarningShot.png
| caption = Quite clearly there's a second shooter on the grassy knoll.
| blogger = Jonas
| date = September 10th, 2007
| url = {{lg15|353}}
| forumid = 13910
| length = 1:28
| description = After Friday's craziness, I went back through the footage to try and get a better understanding of what happened.
| faction = The Resistance
| status = Public Video
| location = [[Arizona]]
| tags = {{tags|lonelygirl15|bree|daniel|danielbeast|jonas|jonastko}}


| execprod =
| producers =
| pa =
| directors =
| camera =
| vidplay =
| story =
| editor =
| music supervisor =
| song =
| cast = {{VidChar|Daniel}}
{{VidChar|Jonas}}
{{VidChar|Sarah}}
{{VidChar|Emma}}
{{VidChar|Lucy|Amanda Goodfried}}
{{VidChar|Shadow|}}
{{VidChar|Watcher|}}
| Previous = Shadow of Death
| Next =

| PreviousB = Stupid B!tch!
| NextB =
| PreviousC =
| NextC =
}}
'''{{PAGENAME}}''' is the two-hundred eighty-fourth video in the lonelygirl15 video series. It is also the twenty-eighth video of season two.

==Transcript==
'''Jonas''': Yeah, I know, last Friday was pretty crazy. I read your comments, and honestly, I'm just as confused as you guys are. I know what I saw, but... I don't know. Anyway, I looked at the footage [[Daniel]] and [[Sarah]] got and I tried to make sense of things.

Sarah contacted us the night before, and she told us that she was bringing [[Bree's injections|the serum]]. We told her to meet us [[Arizona|outside of town]], we didn't wanna take any chances so she hitched a ride. When she got there, well, you saw. [[The Order]] chased us through the woods, and we thought we'd lost them but they, they had [[helicopter]]s.

They found us and demanded that we turn over [[Emma]], but I wasn't gonna let that happen. One of those guys in black kinda looked like a [[Watcher]] and the others sorta looked like [[Shadow]]s, but I don't know, not as jacked up and younger.

All of a sudden, one of those guys fired at us, but it hit the dirt next to Daniel, so I think, maybe, that was a warning shot. Next thing I knew, Emma freaked out, ran at the guy, and jumped on him. He hit the ground and he was dead. And I'm not exactly sure how it happened but he definitely wasn't shot. He was alive until Emma touched him. No blood, no gun shot wound, nothin'. I'm still tryin to wrap my head around this and... I'll be the first to admit it's weird. But you know what? I know what I saw. Anyway, I think that tomorrow I'm gonna go back to where it happened, and see what I can dig up.

==Notes==
*This video clears up confusion as to how the watcher/shadow died. It is now speculated that Emma's touch has some "power" against certain members of the order.
*This video was probably issues by the Creators in response to all-around confusion surrounding the watcher's death.

The Mad Scientist

2007-06-20T21:00:52Z

24.41.31.80: /* Notes */

{{Blog
| name = {{PAGENAME}}
| number = 0215
| image = 0215-SarahBeingCrazy.JPG
| caption = Dr. Gilman? More like Gilligan...
| blogger = Sarah
| date = June 19th, 2007
| url = {{lg15|275}}
| forumid = 11588
| length = 2:55
| description = Hey sis, thanks for the info. We headed south to San Diego to check out the Wyman Foundation.
| faction = The Resistance
| status = Public Video
| tags = {{tags|lonelygirl15|bree|daniel|danielbeast|jonas|jonastko|sarah}}


| execprod =
| producers =
| pa =
| directors =
| camera =
| vidplay =
| story =
| editor =
| animation =
| song = "Confrontation" by Jared Scharff and the Royals

| cast =
{{VidChar|Sarah}}
{{VidChar|Daniel}}
{{VidChar|Jonas}}

| Previous = A New Lead
| Next =

| PreviousB = Everybody Does It ;)
| NextB =
| PreviousC =
| NextC =

}}
'''The Mad Scientist''' is the two hundred fifteenth video in the lonelygirl15 [[List of Lonelygirl15 videos|video series]].

==Transcript==

(''Music plays and Sarah points the camera at Jonas and Daniel as they are all in the car. She then turns the camera to herself.'')

'''Sarah:''' After Taylor [[A New Lead|cracked the barcode]], Daniel found some name of a research scientist or something [[Opening the Box|in the box]] that Bree's dad left.

'''Daniel:''' Isaac Gilman- he's a scientist.

'''Sarah:''' So we're going to some research institute in San Diego to try and track down the mad scientist named Gilman.

'''Daniel:''' He's not a mad scientist. He's a geneticist.

'''Sarah:''' What if he is mad?!

(''Daniel films Sarah and Jonas at a gas station. It shows Sarah pumping gas; Jonas standing by a traffic pole looking sad; Sarah bobbing her head, most likely to music; a closeup of Jonas; Sarah's face through a car window; and lastly another closeup of Jonas with his arm now to his head.'')

'''Sarah:''' Here we are at the Wyman Foundation. Inside those walls, could be our mad, genetic scientist.

'''Jonas:''' Could you please stop with the "mad scientist" [[Four-letter words|crap]], please?

'''Sarah:''' It's a joke.

'''Jonas:''' Yeah, well, this is important.

'''Daniel:''' Dude, she's just keepin' it light.

'''Jonas:''' Well, why does everything have to be ''light'', man? Look, there's a guy up there, who might be able to help us help Bree. Do you not get what's going on?!

'''Sarah:''' I get it, I just...

'''Jonas:''' No, I don't think you do! I don't think you do.

'''Sarah:''' No, I get it.

'''Jonas:''' Yeah, make another joke.

'''Sarah:''' I get it.

(''The camera shows Daniel putting on a doctor uniform with sped up dialogue in background.)

'''Jonas:''' You think you can pull this off again?

'''Daniel:''' Yeah.

(''Very fast speed-up on Daniel putting on uniform.'')

'''Daniel:''' How's this?

'''Jonas:''' (''Fixes a fold in Daniel's coat'') It's good.

'''Daniel:''' (''As if rehearsing'') I have a meeting with Dr. Isaac Gilman.

'''Jonas:''' Good luck buddy.

'''Daniel:''' Thanks. See ya.

(''The camera shows Daniel in a grassy area, most likely the buildings courtyard.'')

'''Jonas:''' Looks like Sarah's trimmin' the lawn. You, uh, you trimmin' the lawn there, skippy?

'''Sarah:''' Um, I'm sorry about before.

'''Jonas:''' Ah, yeah, you know what? Forget it.

'''Sarah:''' It's just um, I know this must suck for you guys. Huggy and mushy just... aren't my style. I'm sorry about what happened with Bree.

'''Jonas:''' Thanks.

(''The camera shows Daniel jogging to car in uniform.'')

'''Jonas:''' Here comes our Dr. Danny.

(''Daniel enters the car.'')

'''Jonas:''' What happened man?

'''Daniel:''' Let's go.

'''Sarah:''' What's wrong?

'''Daniel:''' I'll tell you later. Let's go, let's go. Just, let's go.

'''Daniel:''' He's not here; the receptionist had no idea who I was talking about. And she called human resources and they asked me to leave the property immediately.

'''Jonas:''' What does that mean? Does that mean he quit?

'''Daniel:''' It means that they just said that there is no Isaac Gilman with the Wyman Foundation. That's it.

'''Jonas:''' [[Four-letter words|Fuck]]! (''Slamming the car door'') We're screwed! Man, we got nothing else! If anybody out there knows this Isaac Gilman, please get in touch with us. Fuck!

==Notes==
*This is the second time Daniel has impersonated a doctor, the first time being [[Let's Play Doctor]]. However, no doctor would wear scrubs to a meeting in a place he doesn't work in, so it's not surprising the receptionist didn't believe his story.
*The group's emphatic search for Dr. Gilman, coupled with Jonas' plea at the end, may foreshadow a new canon character.
*None of the locations in this video are actually in San Diego; they are all in Calabasas, CA, which is north of Los Angeles. The locations are the Union 76 station on Calabasas Road, The Commons on Calabasas Road, and an office park on Murearu Road. Also, the first office building shown is not the same building that Daniel later enters. It appears Daniel gets in & out of his scrubs in front of a different building than the Wyman Foundation building.
*During the sped up parts, slowing the audio reveals a somewhat mundane conversation: "Here you go." "Can you hold that?" "Sure." And then later, Jonas adds to Daniel, "You gotta be taller."

Like A Virgin

2007-06-15T00:40:30Z

24.41.31.80: /* Notes */

{{Blog
| name = {{PAGENAME}}
| number = 0212
| image = 0212-JonasSeaofTears.jpg
| caption = Watch out, Jonas, you'll soon need a boat.
| blogger = Taylor
| date = June 14th, 2007
| url = {{lg15|272}}
| forumid = 11367
| length = 2:24
| description = Sorry Jonas, but your email was just too much . . . I had to make this video.
| faction = The Resistance
| status = Public Video
| tags =


| execprod = Miles Beckett, Mesh Flinders, and Greg Goodfried
| producers = Amanda Goodfried
| pa = Ian Schwartz
| directors = Mesh Flinders
| camera = Kevin Schlanser
| vidplay = Jan Libby
| story = Miles Beckett, Mesh Flinders, Greg Goodfried, Jan Libby, and Ross Berger
| editor = Kevin Schlanser and Ian Schwartz
| animation = Ian Schwartz
| song = "Strange Feeling in the Night" by Lucy

| cast =
{{VidChar|Taylor}}

| Previous = Everybody Does It ;)
| Next =

| PreviousB = My Sister = Slut
| NextB =
| PreviousC =
| NextC =
}}
'''Like A Virgin''' is the two hundred twelfth video in the lonelygirl15 [[List of Lonelygirl15 videos|video series]].

==Transcript==
'''Taylor:''' As many of you know, Jonas sent me an email. This email was also CC'd to Sarah and BCC'd to Daniel. Just between you and I, Jonas, it seems like there's a lot of mixed messages going on here. Teacher Taylor's gonna break it down for you. Mixed message number one: well, "just between you and I" is really mixed message number one so...Mixed message number two: "And Sarah seems to be getting some freaky pleasure out of making fun of me right now." Very interesting. According to my analysis, what you're really saying is that you, Jonas, want to give my sister, Sarah, freaky pleasure. Freaky, freaky, freaky, freaky, freaky... Anyone that would take the time to be so condescending as to define a word such as "callous"...I dunno. I'd say callous kinda says it all. "And what's up with her telling everyone Bree was my first time?" It was my first time. What is up with that? And twice you ask "What's your sister's problem?" Here's the thing - there are other people in this world. Lots. And, believe it or not, Jonas, they all have problems. So, yes, Sarah has problems too. She's selfish. She's selfish because...well...she just is. ''(Whispers)'' Probably genetic. ''(Normal volume)'' She's confused. She's confused because she's at a crossroads in her life. I mean, she just finished high school, and she has her whole life ahead of her. She doesn't know what to do next. She's hurt. Sarah's really hurt by what's going on with her parents. It doesn't take a lot of thinking to figure out that one. I'd like to thank everyone for joining me for this week's session of "De-constructing Jonas." I hope you can all join me next week, when I look into more of the many reasons why so many people ''("Like Jonas" pops up on the screen)'' think that the world only revolves around them and their problems. ''(Taylor curtsies.)''

==Notes==
* A transcript of the email is available [http://www.lonelygirl15.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=403381&sid=22bd786f107a8bb26b28250b6cf5c7ff#40338 here].
*The title of this video is also the title of a popular Madonna song.
* [[Jonas]] denies nothing in his email, that [[Bree]] was his first or that he and Bree had sex.
* [[Taylor]]'s "De-constructing Jonas" might be a parody of Bree's "[[Proving Science Wrong (series)| Proving Science Wrong]]" series of videos.
* In the email, Jonas says: "oh, sorry, let me define 'callous' for anyone who might be reading this (like sarah) who's command of the english language seems to be limited to 'do you wanna?'." [sic] In this sentence alone, Jonas makes several grammatical and punctuation errors, as well as common mistakes made by those with a "limited command" of the English language. (He also opens the email with the common mistake, "between you and I," which Taylor repeats.) Jonas, while attempting to be condescending, comes across as foolish.
* Taylor mentions that the e-mail was "BCC'd to Daniel". BCC is an abbreviation for [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_carbon_copy Blind Carbon Copy]. The e-mail addresses in this field cannot be seen by other recipients.
*During the sped up segment where Taylor seems to be making repetitive noises into a megaphone, slowing down the audio reveals that she is actually humming the "Mexican Jumping Bean" song.

The Morning After

2007-06-09T13:39:03Z

24.41.31.80: /* Notes */

{{Blog
| name = {{PAGENAME}}
| number = 0209
| image = 0209-Jonas-MorningAftertheKiss.jpg
| caption = Last night was ''amazing''.
| blogger = Jonas
| date = June 8th, 2007
| url = {{lg15|269}}
| forumid = 11167
| length = 1:41
| description = Last night was amazing...why can't good things last? - Jonas
| faction = The Resistance
| status = Public Video
| tags =


| execprod =
| producers =
| pa =
| directors =
| camera =
| vidplay =
| story =
| editor =
| song =

| cast =
{{VidChar|Jonas}}

| Previous = HOLY SH%T!!!
| Next =

| PreviousB = Bedside Manner
| NextB =
| PreviousC =
| NextC =
}}
'''The Morning After''' is the two hundred ninth video in the lonelygirl15 [[List of Lonelygirl15 videos|video series]].

==Transcript==
(''Jonas is lying in bed without a shirt on. Camera pans up his body and he raises a coffee mug to the camera.'')

'''Jonas:''' Good morning. Cheers. So I just ran into Daniel like five seconds ago in the uh, kitchen. Thanks for the coffee. Oh, and thanks for the heads up. I found out about the "[[HOLY SH%T!!!|Sarah find]]" and... eh. I guess maybe I should be pissed, on some level, but (''takes a sip of coffee'') I'm really not. I actually think it's kind of cool that my first kiss with Bree was recorded. Posterity. Daniel, I noticed the cold shoulder. Look, if you're not going to talk to me, then I'm going to talk to you through this. Look man, I wish you would get over it. I mean you say... you say you're over it. But that's not the way you're acting. Come on, man. This is a good thing. This is a ''really'' good thing. You know Bree. And if she's allowing me to get this close to her, I mean it's amazing. This is (''grins'') amazing. I don't know why you're trying to make me feel bad. Look, I know this man. This is our old Bree. She's out from under their power. Don't you get that? She's back! I know it, because I can see it in her eyes, man. I can ''see'' it. I've never been more sure about anything in my whole life.

(''Cuts to Jonas standing in front of the bathroom door.'')

'''Jonas:''' So, we all know Bree likes her long showers, but this is getting a little ridiculous, so let's check it out. (''He knocks on the door.'') Hey, you need any help in there? (''He smiles at the camera.'') Hey Bree? (''He knocks again.'') Bree, you want breakfast? I can make you anything you want! Bree...? Hey... Bree? (''He opens the bathroom door.'') Hey... (''He pulls back the shower curtain, revealing that Bree is not there.'') NO!

==Notes==
*When Jonas says "I actually think it's kind of cool...", at around 1:41, the camera pans slightly to the left, revealing a pink shirt hanging on the bed post. This hints that Bree and Jonas [[Relationships#Bree_and_Jonas|might have spent the night together]], and could have engaged in sexual intercourse. However, Bree was wearing a red shirt with white polka dots the night before, which does not match the shirt that we see in the video. Then again, she could've been wearing a different shirt to bed, prior to her morning shower.
*Jonas's coffee cup has the logo of the educational film series, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schoolhouse_Rock%21 Schoolhouse Rock!] on it.
*The cup of coffee seems to be empty.
*This is the second time we've seen Jonas [http://www.lonelygirl15.com/lgpedia/index.php?title=Crazy_Emo_Chick shirtless].

1500 Miles

2007-05-14T22:40:16Z

24.41.31.80:

Soon to come.

Call Me Jules

2007-04-29T19:26:30Z

24.41.31.80: /* Notes */

{{Unofficial blog
| name = {{PAGENAME}}
| number = 0001
| image = CallMeJules.jpg
| caption = Isn't this SO seductive?
| blogger = Jules
| date = April 9th, 2007
| url = {{youtube|VA2wrfWswJ8}}
| description = My name is Julia but you can call me Jules.
| tags = Jules paris french reading count of monte cristo
| Previous =
| Next = He's a monster, I promise!!
}}
'''Call Me Jules''' is the first video in the [[Callmejules24]] video series.

== Transcript ==
'''Jules:''' Hola. (''waves'') Mi nombre es Julia. (''Seductively'') Bonjour, mes noms est Julia. (''Stern face.'') Hallo, ist mein namen Julia. (''Smiles.'') But you can call me Jules. So, I've been learning new languages lately. One of them, you're probably not even familiar with. My dad says it's important to be "cultured", whatever that means. As you can tell, I'm new at this, so I'm sorry for my pronunciation. Also, (''reaches toward the camera'') I'm new at this. I hope it's working. Now back to language. The one I prefer most would have to be French. I guess because it sounds so beautiful. Not coming from me, of course, but if you actually listen to a French person speak the language, it's so amazing. Like the way "bonjour" rolls off your tongue. Bonjour. Bonjour. Bonjour. It's the romance language. Wow, I must seem really lame. When I talk in French, I mostly think about going to France. Sitting in a... French cafe and reading a great book, just looking at the Eiffel Tower. My parents travel a lot, and my mom said that Paris is one of her favorite cities. I hope I can go there someday. So, what else? I like to read a lot. I just got done reading "The Count of Monte Cristo". I guess I like to read so much... because my life is pretty much dull. And I mean, in that book, there's so much intrigue and romance and adventure, and it makes my life feel not so dull. I think I can relate to the main character in this book. He had to be trapped in a dungeon for many years. And sometimes, I feel the exact same way. Wow, that was kind of depressing, huh? I hope I didn't bore you too much. Maybe next time, I'll find something more interesting to talk about. Au revoir. Bye.

== Notes ==
*The usual ways of saying "My name is Julia" in Spanish, French, and German are "Me llamo Julia", "Je m'appelle Julia", and "Ich heiße Julia" respectively. Instead, Jules seems to be saying "My names is Julia" in French and "Is my names Julia?" in German. But as Jules says on the [http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments&v=VA2wrfWswJ8&fromurl=/watch%3Fv%3DVA2wrfWswJ8 YouTube commentboard]: "ya i'm still learning."
*As [[Nikki Bower]] stated in her video [[The Ceremony Girl?! - NBR Investigates]], Jules says that she is learning a language that most of us probably haven't heard of, and might refer to [[Enochian]], which Bree had to learn in her preparation for the [[The Ceremony (ritual)|ceremony]].

Science Proved Nothing

2007-04-29T19:20:29Z

24.41.31.80: /* Transcript */

{{Blog
| name = {{PAGENAME}}
| number = 0182
| image = Scienceprovednothing_jonas_daniel.JPG
| caption = I can't remember the face of our interrogator...
| blogger = Jonas
| date = April 28th, 2007
| url = [http://www.lonelygirl15.com/?p=238 lonelygirl15.com]
| length = 0:49
| description = Daniel and I tried to remember what happened in the desert. Unfortunately the sleep study didn't work.
| faction = The Resistance
| status = Public Video
| tags =


| execprod =
| producers =
| directors =
| camera =
| vidplay =
| story =
| editor =
| song =

| cast =
{{VidChar|Jonas|Jackson Davis}}
{{VidChar|Daniel|Yousef Abu-Taleb}}

| Previous = A Solid Lead
| Next =

| PreviousB =
| NextB =
| PreviousC =
| NextC =
}}
'''Science Proved Nothing''' is the one hundred eighty-second video in the lonelygirl15 [[List of Lonelygirl15 videos|video series]].

==Transcript==
(''[[Jonas]] and [[Daniel]] are sitting outside. Jonas is in the foreground and Daniel is in the background.'')

'''Jonas:''' Okay, Daniel and I, we've have been working on this problem all week. And um, you know what we came up with? (''Looks back at Daniel'') What'd we come up with? (''Looks back at camera'') Oh yeah, nothing. Alright, you know what, we need to think about this scientifically. So what do you do when you think scientifically? You hypothesize...

'''Daniel:''' Uh-huh.

'''Jonas:''' You experiment...

'''Daniel:''' That's true.

'''Jonas:''' And then conclude. I need a lab coat.

'''Daniel:''' Right!

'''Jonas:''' I should get a lab coat. Okay, so what was our hypothesis again?

'''Daniel:''' Sleeping in similar conditions to where we were [[Psychological Torture | interrogated]] will help us remember the face of our interrogator.

'''Jonas:''' Mm, kind of weak. Okay, what was our experiment?

'''Daniel:''' We went to sleep.

'''Jonas:''' Riiight. Conclusion?

'''Daniel:''' Uhhh, I had dreams. And... bathtub faucets are harder than the human head.

'''Jonas:''' Yeah. Pretty inconclusive, I would say.

'''Daniel:''' Yeah, I'd say so.

'''Jonas:''' Right.

==Notes==
* The title of this video is clearly a reference to [[Bree]]'s "[[Proving Science Wrong (series)|Proving Science Wrong]]" blog series.
* The last video to show Bree, Daniel, and Jonas together was [[About The Gun]], which was nine videos ago.

Subjects Apprehended

2007-03-27T21:54:34Z

24.41.31.80: /* Notes */

{{Blog4
| name = {{PAGENAME}}
| number = 0161
| image = 0161-BreeBeingWatched.jpg
| caption = Is that orange?
| blogger = The Order
| date = March 26th, 2007
| url = [http://www.lonelygirl15.com/?p=215 lonelygirl15.com]
| description = Transmission OTS - 0135 - 09 Subjects location confirmed. Apprehended. Commencing Phase II. Faction: THE ORDER Status: PRIVATE VIDEO
| tags =


| execprod =
| producers =
| directors =
| camera =
| vidplay =
| story =
| editor =
| song =
| cast =
{{VidChar
| character = Jonas
| actor = Jackson Davis
}}
{{VidChar
| character = Bree
| actor = Jessica Lee Rose
}}
{{VidChar
| character = Daniel
| actor = Yousef Abu-Taleb
}}

| Previous = Vegas, Baby!
| Next =
| PreviousB =
| NextB =
| PreviousC =
| NextC =
}}
'''Subjects Apprehended''' is the one hundred sixty-first video in the lonelygirl15 [[List of Lonelygirl15 videos|video series]].

==Transcript==
There is no clear dialogue in this video.

At three points in the video, we hear a female voice (possibly Bree's) say something that sounds indistinctly like "Jonas" followed by a gasp.

==Notes==
*The Order apprehended Bree, Daniel and Jonas at ARCO Station no. 5315[http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=4916+Paradise+Rd,+Las+Vegas,+NV+89119+(Arco+Ampm)+%4036.100638,-115.149690&layer=&sll=36.137875,-115.21534&sspn=0.125047,0.346069&ie=UTF8&z=16&ll=36.101059,-115.149701&spn=0.007819,0.021629&om=1&iwloc=addr], located at 4916 S. Paradise Road, Las Vegas, Nevada.
*Bree is seen drinking what appears to be an Icee, a drink similar to a [[Orange Slurpee | Slurpee]].
*This video is listed as a "private video" in its description, something the creators had been thinking about doing. Unlike previous videos in [[Breeniverse]] this video is not viewable to the people inside her world, only to us on the outside.
*This is the first time we ever see Bree with her hair up.

Vegas, Baby!

2007-03-24T14:35:05Z

24.41.31.80: /* Notes */

{{Blog4
| name = {{PAGENAME}}
| number = 0160
| image = 0160-BreeAndDanielOnABed.jpg
| caption = Dorkiness still prevails
| blogger = Bree
| date = March 23rd, 2007
| url = [http://www.lonelygirl15.com/?p=214 lonelygirl15.com]
| description = We've been on the road, and the boys decided to stop in Vegas. Don't have much time to type. Uploading this really quick, watch and you'll understand. - Bree
| tags =


| execprod =
| producers =
| directors =
| camera =
| vidplay =
| story =
| editor =
| song =
| cast =
{{VidChar
| character = Jonas
| actor = Jackson Davis
}}
{{VidChar
| character = Bree
| actor = Jessica Lee Rose
}}
{{VidChar
| character = Daniel
| actor = Yousef Abu-Taleb
}}

| Previous = Co-Ed Foosball
| Next =
| PreviousB =
| NextB =
| PreviousC =
| NextC =
}}
'''Vegas, Baby!''' is the one hundred sixtieth video in the lonelygirl15 [[List of Lonelygirl15 videos|video series]].

==Transcript==
(''Jonas and Bree are sitting on separate beds being filmed by Daniel. Jonas puts something into his mouth.'')

'''Jonas:''' Mmm, one more time. (''Bree throws something at Jonas.'') Ahhh! (''Jonas tries to catch it in his mouth and fails.'')

'''Bree:''' You almost got it, that was really good.

'''Jonas:''' Let's, let's focus on the issue at hand here. We're all in Vegas pretty much for the first time and uh...

'''Daniel:''' Yeah...

'''Jonas:''' ...I wanna have a good time. What are we gonna, what are we gonna do seriously? Like I kinda...

'''Daniel:''' You guys... stuck a fish in the face.

'''Jonas:''' ...we're in Vegas, I don't wanna get too crazy but I want to do something.

'''Bree:''' I just... feel like fun but, it's like, the city of "sin" or whatever and I don't want sin.

'''Daniel:''' (Whispers to himself) I want.

'''Bree:''' Well since you guys are going to go out and leave me here...

'''Daniel:''' Uh, you're invited!

'''Bree:''' But, I don't really wanna go!

'''Jonas:''' Dude, can I play with that now?

'''Daniel:''' No.

'''Jonas:''' The camera? I want to see.

'''Daniel:''' No.

'''Jonas:''' Thanks. (''Grabs camera.'')

'''Daniel:''' Goddammit! Thief.

'''Bree:''' I am going to figure out what there is to do when you're a dork in Vegas.

(''Daniel is now lying on the bed next to Bree who is sitting cross-legged.'')

'''Daniel:''' ...in Vegas.

'''Bree:''' (''Looking at Daniel'') I don't think you're a dork anymore. I'm kinda disappointed.

'''Daniel:''' (''Looking away'') I'm still dorky.

'''Jonas:''' (''From behind the camera'') What! Look at you, man. That's pathetic. (''Bree laughs and Daniel smiles.'') I like dorks. You know what? I, I'm kind of dorky. (''Daniel laughs heartily.'')

(''Close-up of Bree.'')

'''Bree:''' So, you know what I can do in Vegas? Applications are now being accepted for the 2007 Helldorado Parade. And a rodeo... yes! (''Daniel is saying something in the background.'') Whoa, whoa, whoa! Wait! There's even a whisker contest. (''Bree laughs.'')

'''Daniel:''' (''Off camera'') A what?

'''Jonas:''' (''Off camera'') Could I get into that?

'''Bree:''' You could totally enter this. (''Bree laughs.'') Vegas is weird.

(''Cut to Bree outside the Fountains of Bellagio.'')

'''Bree:''' This is pretty much my favorite hotel in Vegas, I found. I wish that we could stay here. (''Thinks and smiles to herself and then puts on a sweet voice.'') Jonas! (''Shrugs shoulders and giggles.'') I'm kidding. I like where we're staying; it's nice too. There's apparently a water show (''looks behind her at an expanse of water'') right here, but it's taking a really long time. It's worth the wait I hear. So, I guess I'll keep waiting.

(''Footage of Fountains of Bellagio in action.'')

(''Cut to Jonas and Daniel being filmed by Bree from afar. They are walking and laughing. They are coming to meet her.'')

'''Bree:''' (''Loudly'') He-ey! Daniel!

'''Jonas:''' (''After noticing Bree'') Whoa!

'''Bree:''' What are you doing?

'''Jonas:''' Did you just eat pizza?

'''Bree:''' Aaah! You smell like beer, Daniel.

'''Daniel:''' I don't smell like beer!

'''Bree:''' I thought you weren't drinking anymore.

'''Daniel:''' (''Indignantly'') I don't!

'''Jonas:''' (''Pushing past camera'') Excuse me, Bree. Excuse me.

'''Bree:''' Jonas! Are you drunk too?

'''Jonas:''' What? No.

'''Bree:''' (''Surprised.'') Haa! You are! You are!

'''Jonas:''' Pillars, like you know like the pillars like the Bellamy, it looks like Rome? I don't know.

'''Bree:''' Caesar's Palace?

'''Jonas:''' Yeah, that's it.

'''Daniel:''' (''Lying down'') What d'you do? Told you y'should have hung out with us.

'''Bree:''' Well... I... No, no, you see that there is plenty of PG things to do in Las vegas.

'''Daniel:''' We're PG! (''Getting up'') I'm kinda hungry. Kids! Let me tell you this at home.

'''Bree:''' Tell you what...

'''Daniel:''' That... Look don't interrupt.

'''Bree:''' Okay.

(''Daniel runs out of things to say.'')

'''Bree:''' Okay, let's go eat.

'''Jonas:''' (''To Daniel'') That didn't make any sense.

'''Bree:''' I think, Jonas, looks like he's going to throw up. I need some food.

'''Daniel:''' I'm thirsty.

[TRANSCRIPT INCOMPLETE]

===Notes===
*Some fans wonder if this video was a promo for the Bellagio, a popular hotel and casino in Las Vegas, due to the clips of the water show and Bree stating "this is my favourite hotel in Vegas so far". None of the players actually mentioned Bellagio by name. However, near the end of the video, while the three are running away, the words Restorante di Bellagio can be seen in a very quick shot.
*In this video, Bree says they need to stop posting videos. Some fans are worried by this. For a possible explanation, see the forum thread [http://www.lonelygirl15.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6843 Who Sees What?]