Lonelygirl15

I have been saying for a while now that Gemma is easily the most confusing character in the entire LG15 series, and her motivations are unclear to us all. We know that very early on, she had correspondence with OpAphid (who is affiliated in some way with the Order), but we do not know to what end. Some have suggested she is on Bree's side, and attempting to get information from the Order. Others have suggested the exact opposite. And still others say that at some point she was coerced into making at least some (or all) of her videos. Many of the people in this last group claim her videos have two meanings, and as a result look for symbolism in something as simple as a rose or reference to a nut.

This is my first attempt at understanding the woman who appears in front of a poster in New York, with a zip code that is less than ten miles from zip code 10033, which is the YouTube username for Tachyon's "brother." It is by no means comprehensive, as I took out much as what I believed would not be relevant.

I suggest reading this with an open mind, as I do not currently believe Gemma is necessarily "good" or "evil." Her role seems complicated and possibly a contradiction at times. Consider this a resource, and I plan on updating this post as time goes on.

If you want to join (and I hope you do), please keep this organized. Refer to your answers to questions as 4b, 6c, etc. Let's try to answer the unanswered questions about Gemma.

And finally, before I go on, here's how to read this. Match the first bullet point in "What's the video saying?" to the first bullet point in "What's she saying?" Match the second to the second, and so on.

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Plot: Daniel broke into Lucy's and they have pictures of him.
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1. Nut Kills Man
What's the video saying?
- Gemma claims she lives in London.
- She says she left the community because she wanted to branch off from the community.
- She also says she left the community because it was difficult to let outsiders understand everything.

What's she saying?
- Because of Tachyon's video, it appears at this point that Gemma does not actually live in London. From the beginning, she was likely misleading everybody to her location.
- Is she encouraging Bree to do the same and leave the "religion?"
- Is she giving Bree another reason to leave the the "religion?" Or is giving a reason to leave Daniel?

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Plot: Daniel is hiding out. Bree admits lying to him.
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2. Living in London
What's the video saying?
- Gemma claims her mom respects Bree's mom for saying "any bloke whose business it was to thwart the rights of an individual should be put down to sleep."

What's she saying?
- Is she warning Bree about her rights, as an individual, being taken away?

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Plot: Bree says hi to Gemma.
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3. It's Not Your Decision
What's the video saying?
- Gemma says Bree has to go through with the Ceremony because it isn't her decision.
- She says it hasn't been easy for her to be independent, presumably because "they" are in charge.
- She tells the story of Sam, the boy she liked at 13 who she was not allowed to talk to because he didn't subscribe to their "way of thinking."

What's she saying?
- Is she trying to tell Bree to just go ahead with the Ceremony? Or is she warning Bree that she's in danger?
- What type of trouble are they giving her?
- Is she suggesting that they will try to tear her away from Daniel because he doesn't subscribe to their "way of thinking?"

4. They Disappeared...
What's the video saying?
- She tells the story of Tachyon's sister (and family), who was chosen for the Ceremony. After the ceremony, Tachyon's family left their home (leaving their stuff behind). Gemma's family continued getting letters from Tachyon's family, but they sounded "different."

What's she saying?
- Is she simply saying that Bree's in more trouble than she thinks? Does Gemma know about Tachyon's involvement in Bree's situation?

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Plot: Bree's parents aren't picking up the phone.
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5. Horrid Flatmates
What's the video saying?
- Gemma says that the nicest people can turn into real beasts (not Daniel) overnight. She repeats the idea, saying that people are brilliant one night, but a nightmare the next morning.
- She says somebody broke into the cupboard and her "buscuit tin" was empty. She suggests she should padlock the cupboard.
- She says it's hard, but has made her appreciate different lifestyles.

What's she saying?
- Is she suggesting something about herself? Or is she saying that people Bree grew up with will change overnight (aka those in the "religion")?
- Is she suggesting somebody broke into her place that she wishes she could have locked out?
- Is she suggesting that she has recently changed her lifestyle?

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Plot: Bree's parents are taken away.
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6. Learning Egyptian
What's the video saying?
- Gemma says that it's not a religion, but a secret-society called "the Order."

What's she saying?
- Is this a genuine attempt at clarifying the situation for us and for Bree?

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Plot: Bree and Daniel, at hotel, consider going to police.
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7. Don't Trust the Authorities
What's the video saying?
- Gemma says Bree was right not to trust authorities because they're not who they seem. She says they should stay put.
- Tells story about sport where people "dive into the pool, remain rigid, and float as far as they could."

What's she saying?
- Is she trying to persuade them away from going to cops because cops would harm them? Or is she trying to persuade them away from going to cops because cops would help them?
- Is this symbolism to suggest they should stay put (aka "remain rigid")?

8. Someone's following you
What's the video saying?
- Gemma says she thinks she saw somebody in Bree's video that looks like a man at the Ceremony.

What's she saying?
- Is she telling them to worry about this person because the person might be bad, or because he might be good? Or does she honestly have no idea?

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Plot: Jonas records his first video and claims he doesn't like structure (aka "Order?")
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9. A Watcher
What's the video saying?
- Gemma claims the "smudge" she saw on somebody's hand is a Watcher symbol, even though it is impossible to make out such a symbol in the video (only the smudge).
- She says the Watchers are either like the Knights of the Round Table, or part of the Order. She doesn't say which, presumably because she doesn't know.

What's she saying?
- Since she didn't actually see the symbol in the video, how did she know what it was? And why was she dishonest about how she knew?
- Does she really not know? Why would she leave that open? If she had a motive, wouldn't she want to pick the one that fit it?

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Plot: Bree and Daniel flee the Watcher
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10. An Awkward Silence
What's the video saying?
- Bree says OpAphid means "Acknowledge their Position and Help Initiate a Dialogue."
- She complains about her flatmate who she calls a lost cause, "unlike Daniel."

What's she saying?
- Is she acknowleging "the" OpAphid character? In a good way or a bad way? To what end?
- Is the flatmate supposed to represent something? Is it a symbol for the Order? Or is it an actual flatmate?

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Plot: Bree and Daniel's room is "ransacked" by OpAphid and money is stolen.
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11. Scared To Go Home
What's the video saying?
- Gemma says she thinks a Watcher was following her and claims to be afraid.
- She also says they wouldn't follow her unless they knew she was trying to help Bree.
- She says she's going to join the chat room.

What's she saying?
- To what end would they want to follow Gemma? To interrogate her? To get her help? Or to harm her?
- Has she helped Bree in ways that have been behind-the-scenes?
- In the chat room, she no longer appears to be worried about the Watchers. What happened? Was she ever really concerned at all?

12. Daniel Is Right
What's the video saying?
- Gemma claims she no longer thinks she is being watched.
- She says Bree should not trust Jonas and recommends they go back home.

What's she saying?
- Has she been told to say this? Otherwise, what changed her mind?
- Where does advocating them going home come from? Why would Gemma suddenly claim to think that's safe?

13. Bad Decisions
What's the video saying?
- Gemma is angry they didn't listen to her by going home and repeats distrust of Jonas.
- She tells story of date with guy: some girl went up and kissed him, and then he got uncomfortable. When she asked, he got upset. Uses story to say Bree should only trust Daniel.
- She brings up the note her parents left Bree in P Monkey.

What's she saying?
- Why is she so angry?
- Why is there such a sudden reverse in tone during this story? Is she comparing Jonas to the guy in the story? Would the girl that kissed him be the Order? Or would the guy be Gemma herself in the analogy?
- Without knowing what's in the note, how can she say this? Is it only because the one thing we know it says is to stay with Daniel?

I have to go, but I'll have more late tonight.

I can't answer all of those (or any), but I would like to comment that with the "It's Not Your Decision" (3) video, I'm pretty sure Gemma wasn't saying "You have to go through with it anyway." Rather, I think that was "They're not going to let you decide." Also, in the questions section for "Scared To Go Home" (11), you say that in the chat from Nov. 28, Gemma no longer seemed worried. From what I understand, during the conversation, Bree told Gemma that she was being silly and it was only at the end of the chat, just before leaving, that Gemma said she felt like she had overreacted.

Anyway, sorry I can't offer anything to help pick this apart. I really don't think we can answer these questions yet, but it's good to have a list of things to refer back to for future use.

Eli, OT, but this was wonderful. ^_^

No answers, but a few more questions.

-Gemma's parents are still in the community, and neither Bree nor Gemma know if their parents are still in contact? Could they have been used to influence Gemma's actions in one way or another?

-Why is she so insistent on trusting Daniel? She emphasizes this point more than once. Does she know Daniel can/will protect Bree, or is it becaues he is easy to keep tabs on, or?

-Similarly, why would she not want Bree to go with Jonas? If Gemma is with the Order and they are able to tail her so efficiently, why would it matter where she was?

-Has she been sending secret messages to Bree in her videos? (ie the rose wilting, the literary references, the hand gestures) and if she was were they meant to assist Bree or Manipulate her?

I think that there is a definite change in tone in her videos after her Scared to Go Home video, but am not certain as to why this is. She sure seemed comfortable with Lucy in the Tachyon video, so if she is being coerced, she maintains a good front.

Who said Gemma's parents are still in the community?

She said to stick with daniel because he wanted to go home. She wants bree to go home...so stick with daniel.

If Jonas is part of a different organization that works against the order, she wouldn't want her to go with him.

Last one...that rose and such...have to be some sort of clue or something for bree. I don't know what for or anything...

Gemma says that her parents are still in the community in one of her early videos.....

I am curious about why they want them to go home? Iknow they have been trying to get them there, but it doesn't seem hard to pick her up from some warehouse does it? Maybe they have to get her away from the watchers? Or is there something waiting for Bree at home?

Crazy idea about the rose...it is an old Templar symbol. I dont remeber exactly for what, tho i seem to remeber it is for danger.
I do vividly remeber the rose, tho.

redbear wrote:Crazy idea about the rose...it is an old Templar symbol. I dont remeber exactly for what, tho i seem to remeber it is for danger.
I do vividly remeber the rose, tho.

The Rose isn't just a templar symbol- it's a symbol from early Christianity. In general it refers to the death of Christ (five petals for the five wounds, red for his blood). I looked at the symbolism for roses for a long time th eother day trying to figure out what it would mean-
What I finally came up with is that the significance is more that it is dead, than that it is a rose. Still a mystery to me, though.

There are two possibilities here:

1. Gemma is working with the order- she IS the "I" in OpAphid, and he whole purpose was to Infiltrate and manipulate. This means we can't trust anything in Gemma's videos to be helpful to Bree- it's all meant to lead her back to the Order.

2. Gemma is being coerced and forced to work with the order- in which case, we still can't trust what Gemma says, but she may be trying to leave clues in her videos to warn Bree not to trust her- i.e. a dead rose...

I personally don't think she looked like she was in distress in Tachyon's video.

redbear wrote:Crazy idea about the rose...it is an old Templar symbol. I dont remeber exactly for what, tho i seem to remeber it is for danger.
I do vividly remeber the rose, tho.

The Rose isn't just a templar symbol- it's a symbol from early Christianity. In general it refers to the death of Christ (five petals for the five wounds, red for his blood). I looked at the symbolism for roses for a long time th eother day trying to figure out what it would mean-
What I finally came up with is that the significance is more that it is dead, than that it is a rose. Still a mystery to me, though.

There are two possibilities here:

1. Gemma is working with the order- she IS the "I" in OpAphid, and he whole purpose was to Infiltrate and manipulate. This means we can't trust anything in Gemma's videos to be helpful to Bree- it's all meant to lead her back to the Order.

2. Gemma is being coerced and forced to work with the order- in which case, we still can't trust what Gemma says, but she may be trying to leave clues in her videos to warn Bree not to trust her- i.e. a dead rose...

I personally don't think she looked like she was in distress in Tachyon's video.

Now it is obivious that Gemma has been lying and is in the States...and has some contact with OP Aphid....

new questions:
Who was she talking to on the phone in the Tachyon Video? ( Was it Lucy?)

Has she been with the Order since the beginning as the I in Aphid, or was she "picked up" sometime around the "Scared to Go Home" video?

Macabea13 wrote:Now it is obivious that Gemma has been lying and is in the States...and has some contact with OP Aphid....

new questions:
Who was she talking to on the phone in the Tachyon Video? ( Was it Lucy?)

Has she been with the Order since the beginning as the I in Aphid, or was she "picked up" sometime around the "Scared to Go Home" video?

the tags of the video includ Lucy. I think tachyon has already told us that she is talking to Lucy.

oops...sorry. I haven't read the OP Aphid thread, and was just responding to the speculation that it could be Jonas....but I guess it isn't so......

Killthesmiley wrote:

Macabea13 wrote:Now it is obivious that Gemma has been lying and is in the States...and has some contact with OP Aphid....

new questions:
Who was she talking to on the phone in the Tachyon Video? ( Was it Lucy?)

Has she been with the Order since the beginning as the I in Aphid, or was she "picked up" sometime around the "Scared to Go Home" video?

the tags of the video includ Lucy. I think tachyon has already told us that she is talking to Lucy.

Can you point me to that thread? I can't find confirmation from Tachyon that it's Lucy on the other end of the call. It would be far more interesting if the clues lead to it being Jonas instead.
Here are the YT tags (everyone is listed):
LG15 lonelygirl15 daniel danielbeast bree gemma gemmers19 jonas jonastko opaphid tachyon lucy helper order phone call

trainer101 wrote:

Killthesmiley wrote:

Macabea13 wrote:Now it is obivious that Gemma has been lying and is in the States...and has some contact with OP Aphid....

new questions:
Who was she talking to on the phone in the Tachyon Video? ( Was it Lucy?)

Has she been with the Order since the beginning as the I in Aphid, or was she "picked up" sometime around the "Scared to Go Home" video?

the tags of the video includ Lucy. I think tachyon has already told us that she is talking to Lucy.

Can you point me to that thread? I can't find confirmation from Tachyon that it's Lucy on the other end of the call. It would be far more interesting if the clues lead to it being Jonas instead.
Here are the YT tags (everyone is listed):
LG15 lonelygirl15 daniel danielbeast bree gemma gemmers19 jonas jonastko opaphid tachyon lucy helper order phone call

no what i was sugesting was because of the TAGs in the gemma part III Vvideo included Lucy, that Tachyon was suggeting that gemma was talking to Lucy...

mind you I could be completely wrong on this. but that is what my assumption is.

Killthesmiley wrote:no what i was sugesting was because of the TAGs in the gemma part III Vvideo included Lucy, that Tachyon was suggeting that gemma was talking to Lucy...

mind you I could be completely wrong on this. but that is what my assumption is.

Ah, okay. I thought I had completely missed something. Thanks!