OK, Some Basics - Read before posting
Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 7:46 am
I just wanted to clear things up since people seemt o be making assumptions based on their notions about religion
Crowley was not a Satanist, he didn't advocate virgin sacrifice, he wasn't the wickedest man on Earth, "do what thou will" doesn't mean what you think it is, Crowley wasn't a Nazi Crowley wasn't a heartless mountaineer who left his comrades to die, etc. etc.
For Cripessakes, read these two links before you post about Crowley
http://altreligion.about.com/library/fa ... leyfaq.htm
http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/relig ... r-crowley/
Thelema isn't a "cult"
I don't say this in defense of Thelema, as I have nothing against cults. The original, untainted-by-newspeak definition of cult was simply a tight-knit mystical organization. No such organization calling itself "Thelema" exists - that's like implying that vegetarianism or agnosticism or being a hippie is a cult. Tight-knit religious groups connected to Thelema such as the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, and the A∴A∴ that existed in Crowley's time no longer exist to the extent that they do today, and modern groups calling themselves those names that claim lineage to the original groups can have strained and neblous connections to the originals. Enthusiasts of thelema are in no way cohesively organized. The philosophy of mystics such as Crowley is the opposite of religious faiths such as the Church of Scientology where participation in a specific organization is said to be allegedy nessecary for spiritual growth, as his philosophy was very anti-authoritarian - hermetic groups were created for their own sake
Thelema is not a religion created by Aleister Crowley
"Thelema" is simply the Ancient Greek word for "will" and was used with spiritual connotations by speakers of Ancient Greek, which includes Early Christians. (So when you say something like "Thelema is Satanic, you're actually denouncing a concept important to early Christian theology) Crowley's philosophical doctrine also centers around a similarly commonly used word "agape", or love, which most Christians may be more immediately familiar with. The term "thelema" to describe a religion was, to my knowledge, first used by François Rabelais, who was sort of a 16th century French Jonathan Swift, in his magnum opus Gargantua and Pantagruel. This is where the phrase "Do what thou wilt" (Fay çe que vouldras) comes from - Francis Dashwood and later Crowley would pick it up.
The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, the O.T.O., A.A. and Thelema are not seperate religions, per se, and "Thelema" as religious descriptor is not at all specifically mutually exclusive with anything else
There's nothing intrinsic of the European mystical revival movements of the time that made them function in the same way that other religious identities may - they considered themselves to be scientific. Similarly, groups like the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, the O.T.O., and A.A. were simply just organizations that individuals chose to make that revolved around mystical practice. They weren't religious organizations that operated in the exact same way as others do. (For example, the way people identify either Protestants or Catholics. It's much more like how freemasonry worked, people were members of freemasonry, an organization, not a religious identity) It's more like if scientists formed random scientific organizations. Similarly, Crowley was just using what he liked, what worked for him. It's a freestyle religion, like a similar contemporary religion, theosophy. Crowley encorporated elements from a massive amount of sources, (although in my opinion he did suffer from a bit of ethnocentricism) including Ancient Egyptian, Ancient Greek, Celtic, Norse Levantine/Jewish, Dharmic/Hindu, Chinese, Subsaharan African, early Christian, medieval European, and late European spiritual traditions, just off the topof my head. If you find some interesting fact relating to some religion that might relate to Bree's religion, it doesn't suddenly mean Bree's not a thelemite - to the contrary! If Bree randomly made a video about the religious practices of Hopi Indians, she wouldn't suddenly NOT be a Thelemite. That's silly. Bree's ecclectic references to random esoteric facts and knowledge is typical of someone with her religious interests.
Six degrees of Crolwey
Which brings us to our next point. Crowley was very influential and if you're researching any non-mainstream religious topic on Google, you're probably going to stumble upon his name. It's probably spooky if you found out who he was through these videos, but it's like if you were researching physics and kept finding mentions of Einstein.
lonelygirl15 is fiction with elements of fact, possibly in the vain of the work of Robert Anton Wilson or Grant Morrison
There are no strict religious parents who are Thelemites, there is no Order of Denderah, very few people light candles in front of shrines of Aleister Crowley. This isn't a doucmentary about Thelema, this isn't an ellaborate diss at Thelema. OK?
Crowley was not a Satanist, he didn't advocate virgin sacrifice, he wasn't the wickedest man on Earth, "do what thou will" doesn't mean what you think it is, Crowley wasn't a Nazi Crowley wasn't a heartless mountaineer who left his comrades to die, etc. etc.
For Cripessakes, read these two links before you post about Crowley
http://altreligion.about.com/library/fa ... leyfaq.htm
http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/relig ... r-crowley/
Thelema isn't a "cult"
I don't say this in defense of Thelema, as I have nothing against cults. The original, untainted-by-newspeak definition of cult was simply a tight-knit mystical organization. No such organization calling itself "Thelema" exists - that's like implying that vegetarianism or agnosticism or being a hippie is a cult. Tight-knit religious groups connected to Thelema such as the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, and the A∴A∴ that existed in Crowley's time no longer exist to the extent that they do today, and modern groups calling themselves those names that claim lineage to the original groups can have strained and neblous connections to the originals. Enthusiasts of thelema are in no way cohesively organized. The philosophy of mystics such as Crowley is the opposite of religious faiths such as the Church of Scientology where participation in a specific organization is said to be allegedy nessecary for spiritual growth, as his philosophy was very anti-authoritarian - hermetic groups were created for their own sake
Thelema is not a religion created by Aleister Crowley
"Thelema" is simply the Ancient Greek word for "will" and was used with spiritual connotations by speakers of Ancient Greek, which includes Early Christians. (So when you say something like "Thelema is Satanic, you're actually denouncing a concept important to early Christian theology) Crowley's philosophical doctrine also centers around a similarly commonly used word "agape", or love, which most Christians may be more immediately familiar with. The term "thelema" to describe a religion was, to my knowledge, first used by François Rabelais, who was sort of a 16th century French Jonathan Swift, in his magnum opus Gargantua and Pantagruel. This is where the phrase "Do what thou wilt" (Fay çe que vouldras) comes from - Francis Dashwood and later Crowley would pick it up.
The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, the O.T.O., A.A. and Thelema are not seperate religions, per se, and "Thelema" as religious descriptor is not at all specifically mutually exclusive with anything else
There's nothing intrinsic of the European mystical revival movements of the time that made them function in the same way that other religious identities may - they considered themselves to be scientific. Similarly, groups like the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, the O.T.O., and A.A. were simply just organizations that individuals chose to make that revolved around mystical practice. They weren't religious organizations that operated in the exact same way as others do. (For example, the way people identify either Protestants or Catholics. It's much more like how freemasonry worked, people were members of freemasonry, an organization, not a religious identity) It's more like if scientists formed random scientific organizations. Similarly, Crowley was just using what he liked, what worked for him. It's a freestyle religion, like a similar contemporary religion, theosophy. Crowley encorporated elements from a massive amount of sources, (although in my opinion he did suffer from a bit of ethnocentricism) including Ancient Egyptian, Ancient Greek, Celtic, Norse Levantine/Jewish, Dharmic/Hindu, Chinese, Subsaharan African, early Christian, medieval European, and late European spiritual traditions, just off the topof my head. If you find some interesting fact relating to some religion that might relate to Bree's religion, it doesn't suddenly mean Bree's not a thelemite - to the contrary! If Bree randomly made a video about the religious practices of Hopi Indians, she wouldn't suddenly NOT be a Thelemite. That's silly. Bree's ecclectic references to random esoteric facts and knowledge is typical of someone with her religious interests.
Six degrees of Crolwey
Which brings us to our next point. Crowley was very influential and if you're researching any non-mainstream religious topic on Google, you're probably going to stumble upon his name. It's probably spooky if you found out who he was through these videos, but it's like if you were researching physics and kept finding mentions of Einstein.
lonelygirl15 is fiction with elements of fact, possibly in the vain of the work of Robert Anton Wilson or Grant Morrison
There are no strict religious parents who are Thelemites, there is no Order of Denderah, very few people light candles in front of shrines of Aleister Crowley. This isn't a doucmentary about Thelema, this isn't an ellaborate diss at Thelema. OK?