Lonelygirl15

Thought I’d answer some questions and throw in some idle speculation.

1. Someone on the old forum suggested her religion might be “Freemasonry� since they have a girl group called Job’s Daughters (which is similar to the girl scouts). I’d have to say no, because Masonry is an organization, not a religion. Freemasons may be of any religion, though I’d hazard a guess most are Christian. And women are not allowed, so Bree’s mom wouldn’t be involved. And there’s no reason for a Job’s Daughter to have a Crowley poster around, really.

2. Some people have asked about the locations of OTO lodges. There are many all over the world, probably one in every major city. Witchvox.com has many local listings. If you're curious about the whole thing, Gnostic Mass is usually open to the public.

3. There’s not exactly a canonical approach to Thelema.. Not all lodges even recognize the US Grand Lodge (such as the Typhonian Ordo Templi Orientis). Yes, many recognize Crowley as a Gnostic saint, so it’s possible that a Thelemite would have a shrine to him. The A.’. A.’. Thelemic organization. Also the Maat Magick movement can be considering Thelemic. Age requirements and specific rites will vary.

4. Arguments about what real Thelemite would or would not do are sort of like speculating what a “real� Christian would do. Many have pointed out that Crowley himself would have mocked people who tried to worship him and that Thelema is “really� about exerocising one’s true will. However, Thelema, like any religion, is open for interpretation. Perhaps Bree’s family is over zealous in their dedication to old Uncle Al, or have a particularly strange spin on the Book of the Law.

5. The chaos magick movement is heavily influenced by Crowley. Long story short, this involves creating your own belief system. http://www.chaosmatrix.org

6. Yes, the Church of Satan and the Temple of Set were influenced by Crowley as well.

7. The writers behind LG15 may or may not have done their homework WRT Crowley and Thelema, and may be going for some cheap “evil Satanist� BS.

8. This could be a religion based around Crowley that has nothing to do with Thelema, something entirely made-up.

Possible suspects I haven’t seen suggested yet:

Joseph Matheny. http://joseph.matheny.com Has run a number of occult-themed ARGs. Interesting podcast interview with him: http://smallworldpodcast.com/?p=390

James Curcio (aka Agent 139), author of Join My Cult! Brilliant self-promotor, and I think he’s been involved in ARGs before. http://www.jamescurcio.net/ Podcast interview: http://smallworldpodcast.com/?p=441 He’s working on a new novel: http://www.key23.net/occulture/post/460

Chris Titan. Another ARG guy. Less likely than the other 2, but he’s also big into the occult and Crowley. His current project is http://key23.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page and there’s a podcast interview with him: http://www.frequency23.org/component/op ... y,0/hit,1/

I'll disagree with the Masonry part. Masons are an orginazation. Masonic Catholic is a religion, that is based from with the Masonic temple. They allow women to become involved in thier rituals as well as thier beliefs at young ages now, as before when they didn't the past 6 years have cahnged alot for them, as things have been looking down for them recently.

Correction: Order of the Eastern Star does accept women.

I recently spoke with a few people as well. The Masonic Temple is going to be offering membership to men and women both soon. However, men will be allowed to rise in the ranks and women will not. Women may, however, become a Temple Sect leader or youth leader for religious studies and open mass.

What is "The Masonic Temple"? Grand Lodges are not centrally organized, and general lodges that accept women are not recognized by other lodges. Organizations like Eastern Star accept women, but the women are not themselves Masons.

I RE'd your other message, which may give some insight into this. The "Temple" has only 3 locations. One in southern Califonia, one in Columbus Ohio, and one in Albany NY, they do not accept open invites, you need appointment to enter, and they do not have a listing at all. They are like.. uh.. kind of like the main political standpoints for the rest of the Masonic Sects across the nation.

The whole Masonry question can be solved quite simply - my dad is a mason and he should soon be able to confirm whether the LG saga bears any hallmarks of any form of Masonry. I will ask him tonight. Though, didn't she say she is not involved in any Christian' belief system and did not worship god where as Catholics do.

Something that bothers me about her religion is that she claims she is from a small town where nothing exciting happens and she lives 300 miles from a mall. I just can't see a small town having an active alternate church in it, can you? And surely there must be some people of these religions that we can talk to that can provide us with an acurate portrayal of their church. I am LDS and I have read some of the comments people make regarding the LDS church and they are completely bizarre/wrong. I think we need to talk to members of these alternate religions to find out what really goes on and how prominent Aleister Crowley is in their religion to begin narrowing down what her actual religion is.

She could be exagerating about how far it is to a mall.

The thing about "cults" and other "weird" religions is that they often move to small towns deliberately.

I agree that it's probably not LDS, since they consider themselves Christian. Also, I'm a Mason myself and Crowley and "Masonic Catholocism" are not part of traditional Masonry, but some sort of non-recognized Masonic branch is possible (many such organizations exist, the OTO could be considered a Masonic offshoot of sorts).

She could be Rosicrucian: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosicrucian But I'm not sure who the "one man" would be.

Here's another possibility: Anthrosophy, based around the work of one man, Rudolph Steiner.

They have communal living settlements called Camphills all over the world, though I couldn't find any located in New Zealand.

There's not much connection to Crowley, though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthroposophy

I am a Master Mason. I can't believe some of the bullshit that is being spread in this thread. The Masons are not a religion. For example, I am a Christian with fundamentalist tendencies and I am a member of the lodge. Nothing in the lodge is contrary to my faith and we do not worship a different God than the Christian God. In lodge, in fact, we don't worship God at all. A lot of the symbolism assumes a belief in a supreme being, but the lodge doesn't really comment on the nature of the deity, leaving that up to the conscience of the member.

Oh, also, Bree's religion doesn't even resemble anything Masonic.

Hoolicatt wrote:Masonic Catholic is a religion, that is based from with the Masonic temple.

The Catholics won't even allow their members to join Freemasonry under threat of excommunication.

Hoolicatt wrote:They allow women to become involved in thier rituals as well as thier beliefs at young ages now

One of the landmarks of Freemasonry is that a woman can never become a Mason. There are many groups that claim to work the blue lodge degrees that admit women, but they are not Masons. There are Masonically affiliated appendant organizations that women and children can join (Eastern Star, Job's Daughters, Rainbow, DeMolay) but they aren't part of Freemasonry as a whole.

Hoolicatt wrote:I recently spoke with a few people as well. The Masonic Temple is going to be offering membership to men and women both soon. However, men will be allowed to rise in the ranks and women will not. Women may, however, become a Temple Sect leader or youth leader for religious studies and open mass.

The people you spoke to are imposters.

In number 5 I'd like to add the discordianism had probably as much to do (if not more) with chaos magick than crowley did.

@Who ever said women are in the masons

As for women why would they bother joining the masons when they can join the eastern star?

This is very old and makes the point:

http://tinyurl.com/z89ox

Figure This wrote:This is very old and makes the point:

http://tinyurl.com/z89ox

Makes what5 point?

oxdeltaxo wrote:As for women why would they bother joining the masons when they can join the eastern star?

I find Eastern Star rather boring. The only reason I joined it is because my girlfriend wanted me to be her Worthy Patron. I would think that many women would find the Blue Lodge, the York Rite, and the Scottish Rite to be far more interesting than Eastern Star. The women's and youth orders are nowhere near as interesting as actual Masonic organizations.