Lonelygirl15

QtheC wrote: Also, the clearest references we have to "Zipp" aside from his letters are Skipper Zipp in the Dr. Seuss book and the "Mr. Zipp and The Letters" poster found in one of the drops. Does "Letters" here refer to messages, or to individual alphabet characters found somewhere or ???.

as in the letters that we can make out of the doodles, maybe?

Maybe Mr. Zipp and the letters that he sent

QtheC wrote:From the letter giddeanx posted from Mr. Zipp, this line stood out (to me anyway):

You will need their help, for my messages will be encoded to confuse the enemy. Even now it is likely you need their help.

Jeromy has indicated in OOC responses that Mr. Zipp is a puzzle that once we solve it, he thinks we will know we have solved it, like we will see or realize something and it will be clear it must be correct.

The quote above made me wonder whether at that moment in the story, Maddison already had some hidden message or code - maybe something we missed. It might bear examining what she had already at that point in the story. It could be he is just talking about the coded pigeon messages, but maybe there is a hidden message within this very letter or elsewhere?

I agree that the "even now it is likely you need their help" part seems to suggest something in the letter or earlier was actually a clue. It feels like that whole long email must have something in it, I just can't figure out what.

QtheC wrote:From the letter giddeanx posted from Mr. Zipp, this line stood out (to me anyway):

You will need their help, for my messages will be encoded to confuse the enemy. Even now it is likely you need their help.

Jeromy has indicated in OOC responses that Mr. Zipp is a puzzle that once we solve it, he thinks we will know we have solved it, like we will see or realize something and it will be clear it must be correct.

The quote above made me wonder whether at that moment in the story, Maddison already had some hidden message or code - maybe something we missed. It might bear examining what she had already at that point in the story. It could be he is just talking about the coded pigeon messages, but maybe there is a hidden message within this very letter or elsewhere?

I think at that point in the story Maddison had decoded the morse code message that Zipp had sent, but we hadn't figured out what TWO BAGS meant. When I rewatched the video I assumed that the "even now it is likely you need their help" referred to figuring out TWO BAGS. (The camera is even focusing on the note from the pigeon as she reads that portion of the letter from Zipp. Whether that was intentional or not I'm not sure, since I think Jeromy said the videos themselves didn't contain clues.)

sparkybennett wrote: as in the letters that we can make out of the doodles, maybe?

I've wondered that too...

~tb

Just throwing this out there...

There is a muscian/guitarist named Nanda Zipp in a band called Folkloriate in the Los Angeles area:

http://www.folkloriate.com/bio.cfm

I tried listening to the four recordings they have posted, but their player does not work for me:

http://www.folkloriate.com/recordings.cfm

One song, "small boat" can be heard here:

http://www.hearmusic.com/#OFF_THE_CLOCK

Okay, I had to do a lot of driving today, and as I was driving along the interstate I pondered the puzzle of the pigeons. (Ooh, alliteration!) It just didn't seem to make sense how a homing pigeon would just hang around on Maddy's doorstep. A homing pigeon should fly home when it was released, and one would think that Maddy would notice if the pigeon was actually living on her doorstep. Then, I considered another possibility: IT'S NOT A #@*%ING HOMING PIGEON!

We all seem to have assumed that the bird was a homing pigeon, because homing pigeons are what a person would normally tie a note to. But using pigeons never seemed like a normal or effective way of transporting messages. I started out favoring the theory that Mr. Zipp was dropping homing pigeons on Maddy's doorstep, since there didn't seem to be a way to make the pigeon consider Maddy's doorstep to be "home" without her noticing. Also, since the third note was just tied to the doorknob, we already knew he or an accomplice was close.

Then I realized that the bird just stands around with a message tied to its leg, and when someone releases it, the bird flies off. This does not require any particular talents other than being somewhat tame and lazy. It's possible that it even was given a tranquilizer to make it easier to transport and make sure it didn't fly away. So this would mean:

1) The bird must have been physically left at the door, which narrows down possible suspects for who Mr. Zipp is. (Although the third note and the whole "you will know the password" thing already indicated that he was close, the timing may eliminate more suspects. Who actually had a opportunity to drop the bird?)

2) The purpose of the bird was (at least in part) misdirection. It was a way to make a message look like it came from somewhere else. Perhaps to protect the identity of Mr. Zipp?

3) This provides a possible explanation for why Mr. Zipp didn't use another pigeon after Maddy sent a reply. If it's not actually a homing pigeon and is just randomly flying around, Mr. Zipp may have been worried about Maddy seeing the pigeon again before he did. If Maddy's neighborhood became filled with pigeons that still had Maddy's replies tied to their legs, she might get suspicious.

4) If the above is true, then it is likely that Mr. Zipp did not in fact get Maddy's message from the pigeon. So how did he know she sent the message? His next message only came after Maddy's reply after all, and we are assuming is a reply to that. (Although I just established that assumptions are dangerous, and we still haven't figured the third note out yet.) Maybe he's watching Maddy's videos, or maybe he saw the message before it was sent...

So, does my logic seem sound? Does anybody have more ideas? I'm going to go back to watch the videos again. Maybe I can deduce something from the windows of opportunity for leaving the birds.

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at, owldragon. Why any of that would indicate that this wasn't a homing pigeon, I mean.

At the very least, the bird (I'm assuming that, for the purpose of the story, both pigeons played the same character) was certainly a pigeon, and the fact that it was so okay with being handled would suggest it was a homing pigeon. Most aren't going to be that tame unless raised to be.

You do have a point. It is still possible that it is a homing pigeon. At the very least it seems to be a tame pigeon. The thing about it being a homing pigeon that was bugging me was that it didn't try to fly home. If it didn't have a homing instinct, it would be more likely to stay around. On the other hand, I thought of the possibility that it was tired or drugged while I was writing, which is another explanation. Also, now that I think of it, there could also have just been a bit of bird food hidden by the door.

It was just that I suddenly realized that it didn't have to be a homing pigeon. We don't know whether it was the same bird both times, either. I just like the idea of finding an explanation for why Mr. Zipp stopped using birds. In general, I'm hoping that if we understand the behavior of the bird(s), we can deduce who sent them.

Edited to clarify my thoughts and spell things correctly. Me write real good.

OOG, this is what Jeromy's said about the pigeon:
http://www.lonelygirl15.com/forum/viewt ... 623#337623

Jeromy wrote:

kittenishtrance wrote:I'm just curious about the pigeon. Where did you get it? Was it a specially trained pigeon? (I don't know if pigeons are homing pigions automatically, or if they are trained.) Or did you just grab any pigeon on the sidewalk and strap a note to it? And it seemed to be used to being handled, so maybe it was a trained pigeon? I only ask because I love birds! I'm not trying to tear a hole into your story or say it was a dumb idea. How did you get the pigeon to cooperate? And did you use the same pigeon twice? I know you wanted video questions, but I don't know how to make videos. And since you've spent some time in this thread with immortal1, I was hoping you might answer me while you're at it. If you're too busy, it's okay.

No it's fine. I don't see the use of pigeons as a plot hole, so I'm not threatened by the question. I have been busy and showing preference to the videos, but I wish somebody would have posted a question about the pigeons. so....

I have a friend who races pigeons, and he told me we could use some if necessary. Like homing pigeons, they will fly 300-500 miles home. So not only were they tame, clean, and easy to handle, but they worked perfectly within the context of the story.

Just to be safe, we did anchor them down. The anchor on camera was with the bricks in front of Maddison's apartment.

Also, from the IRC chat:
http://www.lonelygirl15.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10162

* Sweet_Elixir asks: What made you decide to use a carrier pigeon in this ARG/story, and where did you get him from? Did you have to train him? Can he really fly? And does he prefer boxers or briefs?
<jeromy> I used the pigeon because I had access to one
<jeromy> He came pre-trained
<jeromy> except for the potty
<Sweet_Elixir> lol
<jeromy> He does fly
<jeromy> briefs
<jeromy> I'm curious
<jeromy> Faye - did you like working with pigeon
<Faye> It kind of scared me
<Faye> im not going to lie
<Sweet_Elixir> I thought it looked like sometimes Faye didn't want to touch it
<Faye> it would go crazy and flap like a maniac! lol
<Skunkwaffle> were there any "incidents"
<Sweet_Elixir> I wouldn't want to either, lol
<jeromy> what about you Jay Z
<lg15panda> yeah jason/adam did most of the handling of the pigeon -- did it have any accidents?
<Emsmu> I thought it was going to bite Adam in the first video
<Emsmu> I was like "...who just picks up a pigeon?"
<JasonZednick> No, working with the pigeon wasn't that big a deal
<Sweet_Elixir> Does it have a real name?
<jeromy> no - the trainer has a bunch of pigeons
<JasonZednick> The only real incident was when we were filming the first 'launch' in the first video.
<Brooklynxman> so it wasnt HTMLvis?
<determination> I didn't even realize it was real
<Emsmu> did you mark it as hymlvis so you'll forever know him?
<JasonZednick> We had two birds, and we filmed the first one, but wanted to do it differently.
<JasonZednick> We took the second bird out of the cage, and I was holding him when he decided he wanted to get the hell out of dodge.
<JasonZednick> It lept from my hands, started to fly, I caught one leg but
couldn't hold on.
<Faye> I wish ya'll could have seen it....it was so funny
<JasonZednick> All in the space of about 3 seconds...strange.
<jeromy> Both birds made it home safe
<jeromy> next question

Thanks, deagol. I had seen a quote from the IRC chat, but not the post from Jeromy. Guess I should have done a little bit more research on pigeons.

I just got excited at the thought of some kind of lead. It sounded good in my head, at least... I guess I'm just getting desperate. What are we missing?

But all that is OOG (out of game). I think if it makes sense in-game that the pigeon was a regular pigeon instead of a trained homing pigeon, it's still a valid theory.

I never knew pigeons raced....

deagol wrote:OOG, this is what Jeromy's said about the pigeon:
http://www.lonelygirl15.com/forum/viewt ... 623#337623

Jeromy wrote:

kittenishtrance wrote:I'm just curious about the pigeon...

I wish somebody would have posted a question about the pigeons. so....

I have a friend who races pigeons, and he told me we could use some if necessary. Like homing pigeons, they will fly 300-500 miles home.

Here is a map with circles added with radius 300 miles and 500 miles from Nacogdoches, Texas:


As you can see, Kansas City (the second drop city) is pretty close to the extreme range for a homing pigeon. This may be a coincidence, but I thought it was interesting. New York and Boston (the first and third drops) are clearly out of range.

Also, Kerrville, TX (which Maddison and Adam passed on their way to "Uncle Joe's") lies pretty close to the 300 mile radius circle. It is near I-10, N.W. of San Antonio, W. of Austin.

janejane26 wrote:

QtheC wrote:From the letter giddeanx posted from Mr. Zipp, this line stood out (to me anyway):

You will need their help, for my messages will be encoded to confuse the enemy. Even now it is likely you need their help.

Jeromy has indicated in OOC responses that Mr. Zipp is a puzzle that once we solve it, he thinks we will know we have solved it, like we will see or realize something and it will be clear it must be correct.

The quote above made me wonder whether at that moment in the story, Maddison already had some hidden message or code - maybe something we missed. It might bear examining what she had already at that point in the story. It could be he is just talking about the coded pigeon messages, but maybe there is a hidden message within this very letter or elsewhere?

I think at that point in the story Maddison had decoded the morse code message that Zipp had sent, but we hadn't figured out what TWO BAGS meant. When I rewatched the video I assumed that the "even now it is likely you need their help" referred to figuring out TWO BAGS. (The camera is even focusing on the note from the pigeon as she reads that portion of the letter from Zipp. Whether that was intentional or not I'm not sure, since I think Jeromy said the videos themselves didn't contain clues.)

The Revver description for the video "Immerse Myself (April 12)" says

Here is the e-mail that was in the inbox. It is dated Tuesday April 10th. I’ll post some screen shots in 12 hours . . . FYI the myspace, youtube, lonelygirl15, and the revver accounts were all created the same day and I’m guessing by the same person. I think Mr. Zipp is kind of a funny name, but I don’t think now is the time to mask my fear in humor. I’m sort of scared, and I’m not sure what to do. Thanks to those that have helped so far.

and the first two videos in the series were dated April 11. That means Mr. Zipp wrote the email before Maddison had received any of the coded pigeon messages. He could be anticipating that she may need help when she receives the first message which tells her how to access the accounts and read the email, or to solve the two bags puzzle, or the coded message found later by Whiskey, but he could also be talking about the email itself, or something else posted on one of the accounts he set up at the same time (was there anything else posted?)