Page 5 of 5
Re: Kate, Shrews, and Plots
Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:22 pm
by Keevy06
TheDoctorIsIn wrote:JerseyJohnny wrote:TheDoctorIsIn wrote:Taming of the Shrew is what you mean, not Kiss Me Kate.
Regardless, many modern stories have similar plots to Shakespeare's. And most of his were based on well-known oral tales. There are only a handful of actually different plots around, it's the details that make things different.
Whatever, it's the same Shakespeere play whether its Kiss Me Kate or Taming of Kate or whatever.
And there are many, many plots. All you have to do is look at all the Television shows there ahve been HUNDREDS over the years. Think of a show like I Love Luci or Threes Company, each of those shows had so many different unique Plots, and those are only TWO shows. Eight is Enough, Chips, Steinfeld, The Friends - all these are shows with so many different unique plots, it's not "just the detales" that change. One show has 2 couples, another has 2 girls and guy, another has a family w/ 8 kids, another is about a Police Force, another is about 4 random people in NY and another is about 6 random people in NYC. The plots COULD'NT be the same.
Nice try, though! I know we are all anxsious to solve the Riddle, but lets not make blanket statements now like "all plots are the same as Shakespeere".
That's not what I said, I was talking about the fact that there are only four archetypal plots: man vs. man, man vs. society, man vs. nature, and man vs. himself. How those plots are used is what makes stories different. When you break things down to their most basic elements, all stories are the same. Even if you go back to the earliest works you will still find the same things.
Take the Galatea story for instance. The Greek sculptor who falls in love with his creation and asks the Gods to give it life. That story, that plot line, has been told a thousand times since it's creation, and yet each telling is different. That's why people paid to see "She's All That" despite having watched "Pretty Woman". It's all in the details.
My comment was meant to say that I thought you were stretching a bit by trying to relate it back to Shakespeare. Especially The Taming of the Shrew which was really more about the older sister than the younger. If you really want to relate these vlogs to the Bard, I'd actually say Hamlet. The young prince (lonelygirl) who is torn between doing what is accepted as right and what (s)he believes to be right. It's all inner turmoil and soul-searching. All's Well that Ends Well would also work, but that's a bit too easy.
As for the shows, you are proving my point. Each of these is different because of the details, the make up of the casts, the locations, etc. And to answer your question about how could they be the same plots despite such different details, think about this: how many of these had an episode that revolved around a surprise birthday party? Exactly.
Oh, and just as a personal note... I wouldn't ever use Chips to try to back up an argument about plot lines... I mean... Erik Estrada?
TheDoctorIsIn, Awesome. I think the argument ended with that - mainly the first paragraph. You're my hero
Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:24 pm
by TheDoctorIsIn
Thanks, I try.
Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:29 am
by kilgoretroutlovesyou
It is also key to remember that Shakespeare was a noted hack himself (and I do not mean that in a bad way). He consciously and openly stole cool ideas from prior writers and made them his own (Hamlet is based on an older Norse play called "AMLETH"). This goes back, way back. Stories all look the same because we as humans dig the things we can sort of see coming. Anything too new scares the poop out of us, and we become disinterested.
It's very interesting actually. If you dig this too, look up Joseph Campbell's "Hero with a thousand faces". Killer read. There are some good summairies online, if you just want to do it quick.
Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:19 am
by Sfonzarelli
kilgoretroutlovesyou wrote:It is also key to remember that Shakespeare was a noted hack himself (and I do not mean that in a bad way). He consciously and openly stole cool ideas from prior writers and made them his own (Hamlet is based on an older Norse play called "AMLETH"). This goes back, way back. Stories all look the same because we as humans dig the things we can sort of see coming. Anything too new scares the poop out of us, and we become disinterested.
Agreed, and like the creators of lonelygirl15, he was also an agent of the Illuminati hiding mystical allusions inside seemingly benign pop culture trash.
Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:42 am
by aguy
kilgoretroutlovesyou wrote:(Hamlet is based on an older Norse play called "AMLETH").
Which was, itself, based on play called "OMLETH"?
Seriously, in addition to inspiring Bill with "Romeo and Juliet" on her trip back there, she also inspired a bunch of other works. For example, the famous "To be or not to be" line in Hamlet was originally penned as "To Bree or not to Bree." But Bill found the audiences a bit lost by the allusion, and so changed it to something a little more understandable. Little known fact.
Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:02 am
by sunshinerage
It's horrible manners to come into a thread like this, but...
Are we
really going to accept spoilers and that whole story of how he's getting them from someone so far removed from American pop culture (and, it would seem, culture in general) that he/she can't get Julia Stiles's name right
one time?
I know most of you are trying to take it all in and just let the silliness roll off your backs and I commend you for it.
The number one thing a source of any kind has to have is credibility. To my mind, misusing actors' names, using incorrect references to both modern and Elizabethean culture, and showing little corroborating evidence does not add up to credibility.
If I say I know what's going to happen on Lost, I can't expect anyone to believe me if I waltz into a Lost forum with, "Hey, I have it, the answer is that Kathy and Jake will kiss and Sawyer will kill Locket. It's all a ripoff of Gilligan's Island!"
And I don't care what entertainment you're watching, the characters (be they policemen, nuns, firemen, Indian Chiefs, or pirates) will have similar conflicts, as TheDoctor's succinct explanation has already described.
Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:31 am
by Nora Volkova
Not all trolling is destructive -- some people who participate in boards and are genuine fans get their kicks out of instigating cleverness and silliness among their fellow posters. Such people are to be treasured and hugged, and people should make brownies for them and always show their appreciation.
So no, although I have never asked JerseyJohnny this directly, my strong suspicion is that we weren't really intended to take his post seriously.
Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:33 pm
by aguy
Nora Volkova wrote:So no, although I have never asked JerseyJohnny this directly, my strong suspicion is that we weren't really intended to take his post seriously.
Wow, if that's true, then my hat goes off to him. He would be one deadpan dude!
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:51 am
by lyriclyinclined
ok. now, if im the only one who has ever read a series of unfortunate events then this is going to make NO sense.... if you have however youll understand what i mean exactly
i have two words for you johnny sir
do you write for the daily punctillio?
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:20 am
by JerseyJohnny
lyriclyinclined wrote:ok. now, if im the only one who has ever read a series of unfortunate events then this is going to make NO sense.... if you have however youll understand what i mean exactly
i have two words for you johnny sir
do you write for the daily punctillio?
No, madam, I do not. What is that? Some sort of ripoff of "The Onion"???
www.theonion.com
What is a punctillio anyway??? Sounds like Spanish.
EDIT: Here's my favorite story for today:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/53600
AND this one (audio):
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/53680
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:28 am
by toadlguy
I know it's an unpopular opinion on this board - but sometimes JJ is pretty funny - reminds me of the cat in the comic strip Get Fuzzy.
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:25 pm
by kilgoretroutlovesyou
lyriclyinclined wrote:ok. now, if im the only one who has ever read a series of unfortunate events then this is going to make NO sense.... if you have however youll understand what i mean exactly
i have two words for you johnny sir
do you write for the daily punctillio?
this world is quiet here.
Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:40 am
by TheDoctorIsIn
kilgoretroutlovesyou wrote:lyriclyinclined wrote:ok. now, if im the only one who has ever read a series of unfortunate events then this is going to make NO sense.... if you have however youll understand what i mean exactly
i have two words for you johnny sir
do you write for the daily punctillio?
this world is quiet here.
Idiocy can only carry something so far...
Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:05 am
by slacker
This thread has served its purpose. Time to lock and move on...