Non-Naive

Languorous Lass · Post by **Languorous Lass** » Sat May 12, 2007 9:10 am

I've never seen The Leaky Cauldron (is it a Harry Potter site?), but I frankly don't understand why, if somebody doesn't want to read a lengthy post in a thread, s/he can't just ignore the post and read the next one(s).

That's what I generally do with the "Ooh! Ooh!" shipper posts that annoy the hell out of me. Occasionally I contribute a curmudgeonly mutter, but not nearly as often as I think evil thoughts about those posts.

Luminous · Post by **Luminous** » Sat May 12, 2007 10:45 am

Languorous Lass wrote:I've never seen The Leaky Cauldron (is it a Harry Potter site?), but I frankly don't understand why, if somebody doesn't want to read a lengthy post in a thread, s/he can't just ignore the post and read the next one(s).

That's what I generally do with the "Ooh! Ooh!" shipper posts that annoy the hell out of me. Occasionally I contribute a curmudgeonly mutter, but not nearly as often as I think evil thoughts about those posts.

Lass, there is more to it than simply ignoring the posts. When one of these out of control posting fests gets started, anyone's posts are fair game. It really sucks if your posts have been misunderstood, or you get quoted out of context. It's very easy to get swept up into defending yourself and having to provide sources for a debate you never intended to get involved in to begin with. It's either that or bite your tounge and let people use your posts to make points you never intended. I hope you can recognize what the problem is here. It can be very frustrating. It's normal for this to happen occasionally, but it is becoming more and more prevelant as this debate thing is running amok. Frankly, I get to where I just simply don't want to post anymore in a thread where you folk are going at it.

Languorous Lass · Post by **Languorous Lass** » Sat May 12, 2007 12:43 pm

Well, when somebody quotes me out of context and wants to start an argument I'm not interested in participating in, I either just say so or ignore the post. So I'm not affected by the issues you're bringing up. Guess you folks who are upset will have to propose a solution that works for you.

Luminous · Post by **Luminous** » Sat May 12, 2007 3:40 pm

Languorous Lass wrote:Well, when somebody quotes me out of context and wants to start an argument I'm not interested in participating in, I either just say so or ignore the post. So I'm not affected by the issues you're bringing up. Guess you folks who are upset will have to propose a solution that works for you.

I've been doing this for months, and frankly, it's getting tiring. Obviously, my temper is getting a bit short - partly because this kind of discussion is becoming more and more prevalent, and partly because of the nature of the discussion - the ethics of kidnapping a minor. I would suggest a solution, but I really don't have one. I'm not experienced in forum administration. This is the first discussion board I've ever participated in, and this is the first time I've really had a gripe with a member of the board. This is new territory for me. I appreciate Garnet's perceptions, I think she's spot on, and I'm open for suggestions.

Personally, I think it would be really nice if those of you who enjoy this indepth analysis would start your own thread for it. We have the playhouse for people who want a free form discussion and don't want to be required to stay on topic. We have the Galiens thread for people who want to speculate about well - er - alot of crazy stuff

Why not have a thread for indepth analysis and debate? Then people wouldn't have to get involved in it unless they choose to.

Languorous Lass · Post by **Languorous Lass** » Sat May 12, 2007 4:00 pm

Luminous wrote:This is the first discussion board I've ever participated in. . . . This is new territory for me.

Well, hey! Glad you picked this board to start with.

Luminous wrote:Personally, I think it would be really nice if those of you who enjoy this indepth analysis would start your own thread for it. We have the playhouse for people who want a free form discussion and don't want to be required to stay on topic. We have the Galiens thread for people who want to speculate about well - er - alot of crazy stuff Why not have a thread for indepth analysis and debate? Then people wouldn't have to get involved in it unless they choose to.

That's an interesting thought. So in the Videos section, we could have something like -- to use the latest vid as an example -- two threads: "What the F**K? Random Thoughts," and "What the F**k? In-depth discussion."

The more I think about this possible solution, though, the more of a headache it gives me. Within the last few weeks, we've already had people complaining about the fact that the same discussions were going on in several different places on the board, and that it was getting confusing/annoying.

Maybe Garnet could give us some more info about how things work at The Leaky Cauldron.

Luminous · Post by **Luminous** » Sat May 12, 2007 4:06 pm

Languorous Lass wrote: "What the F**K? Random Thoughts," and "What the F**k? In-depth discussion."

Kind of, although I would tend to categorize it more as "Discussion" and "Debate" rather than "Random Thoughts" and "Discussion"

Languorous Lass wrote: The more I think about this possible solution, though, the more of a headache it gives me. Within the last few weeks, we've already had people complaining about the fact that the same discussions were going on in several different places on the board, and that it was getting confusing/annoying.

Yes, I agree. It could create more headaches than it solves.

Languorous Lass wrote: Maybe Garnet could give us some more info about how things work at The Leaky Cauldron.

Yes, please.

chershaytoute · Post by **chershaytoute** » Sat May 12, 2007 6:48 pm

<clearing throat> I'd like to ask everyone who is participating in this thread to take a deep breath. And another. And another.

Now, please, take a step back from your computer. And another. And another.

No matter what hemisphere you're in, the season's are changing, and it's beautiful outside. The colors of the season make nature a wonderful thing. Take the time to go outdoors and re-familiarize yourself with nature. Look at the blooming flowers...or the leaves changing on the trees. Watch the newborn lambs cavorting in the fields, if you have some of those close...and see just how many directions they can go in one bounce...or watch the birds flying away for the season as the prepare for the weather to change. Breathe in...and feel the seasons inside yourself. Doesn't that feel better than anything you've been reading here just now? <smile> Okay, one more breath, then I'd like you to read just one more thing, please... <smile>

What we often see here is a difference of opinions on what can be, granted, some very weighty issues... This can be compounded by a difference in the style in which people write...in their "voice" on the forums. This difference in style reflects upon our perceptions and affects our opinion of the intent of what has been said.

Each of us tries very hard to get our intent across to others in what we believe to be the best way possible. The problem lies in the fact that I am not you are not he is not she is not him is not you are not her is not I... In other words, not a one of us thinks the same way as any single other one... I can't see into any of your heads, nor you into mine...so I just don't know what's going to work best in helping you see my point of view, nor you, mine. Notice, please, that I didn't say making, but helping. <smile> That, right there, is a big first step.

Besides style, our ideas of why we're here differs...and the very idea of what makes the forums fun is different for each of us. Some want light entertainment only. Some want debate and discourse. Some want a combination of both. When a person who is looking for debate encounters someone who would like to leave that type of discussion to the real world only and is looking to the forums for light entertainment...this can be a problem, especially if these two people don't realize that they're working at cross purposes. Many of the threads you'll see on the forums make it easy to figure out what you'll find - light, easy, fun stuff or The Great Debate. Unfortunately, that's not always the case. The Video threads are a case in point.

When in these "mixed" threads, style can definitely play into perception inadvertently, because while the style one uses can sometimes give a clue to the type of activity one is looking for as enjoyment when one joins the forums...it doesn't always. I've noticed, too, that recently the Video threads themselves, because of the nature of the subject matter of the videos lately, have become home to discussion of what has become some rather sensitive issues that probably needed to be split off into threads separate from the discussion of the videos themselves - and I feel badly that this hasn't happened (although I will plead nasty rotten migraine as part of my tardiness on this one <rueful grin>), but...

I'd like to think that we can all have a part in making this type of discussion go better. <looks around hopefully>

I would like to ask that when one feels that they are in the middle of a discussion in which they feel as if things are getting personal, or that they feel is a bit too heated or just too much to deal with in ANY way...they take some of those deep breaths I mentioned above, push their chair back...and step away from the computer for a while. PM a mod, if they'd like a second opinion - it's part of what we're here for, after all - I'll volunteer any time...me, I am a championship fence sitter...I promise that I will NEVER be on ANYONE's side (yours or the "other guy's," but will look at the subject with an eye toward what's best for the forum... <smile>

Next, I'd very much like folks to remember to discussion concepts and ideas, and to use and choose their words accordingly. Words should NEVER be used in such a way that they might in any way be construed as attacking other members of the forum. I see this happening in a number of posts in this thread, made in the heat of the moment over the last few days, no doubt, and this makes me sad, as I have a great deal of respect for the folks I see doing this. I will be cleaning these up fairly soon.

Now, I'm going to make a suggestion here...and in a couple few days, I may even take this idea and put it into the suggestions area so we can talk it out and flesh it out some if it seems warranted...

From discussion here, it seems apparent that there are folks who would just as soon talk about JUST the videos in the Videos threads - what an odd concept, huh? <chuckle> From discussion here, it seems equally apparent that there are other folks who would also get enjoyment talking about more weighty matters, the debate of moral issues, if you will, should such discussion arise during conversation...BUT...conversely...the first group of folks might not want to join the debate and might just feel that this is going to stop them from having their fun, since the heavy moral stuff and the light conversation are somewhat at odds...

This thread and another one (the Spring Break thread) have both kind of just gone on their merry way recently. Flames ensued in both. Not A Very Good Thing.

What about this... How about if the mods watch for AND y'all let the mods know when this kind of topic comes up, so we can move the conversation - that way, the best of both worlds happens? People who just want to talk videos can talk, people who want to debate...can debate (but there will be someone on hand with the handy-dandy fire extinguisher, y'all!

). People who want to do both, well, they have places where they're more than welcome to do both!

Whatcha think? Is this something that'd be workable for everyone?

Luminous · Post by **Luminous** » Sat May 12, 2007 8:22 pm

I may be alone in this opinion, but yes, it would be really nice to keep the debate separate from the video threads.

Post by **Broken Kid** » Sat May 12, 2007 8:27 pm

I'd agree that such a debate, as long as it's kept civil, is fine, but it does deter from discussion of the Video. So anyone who sees this kind of off-topic conversation should alert a moderator. We can split it out, so that it gets the attention it deserves and other people can find that conversation more easily (instead of having to go page 8 of 13, for example), and those discussing the video can stay on topic. In most cases, the separate conversation would go in the Plot Discussion area. Thanks!

chershaytoute · Post by **chershaytoute** » Sat May 12, 2007 8:37 pm

Now, the forums are a LOT to read...it's hard to be everywhere at once... We will try our absolute darnedest to keep an eye on things here and get the discussion-discussions scooted over into the Plot Discussion area... And, maybe, could you guys also try your darnedest to let us know when stuff starts looking more like discussion-discussion and less like talk about the video...so we can scootch?

I am hoping that this will be helpful for everyone, because I respect everyone here...but <tapping toe>, folks've kinda gone overboard over the last couplefew days... <rueful grin> I know there are regrets all around...and I'd really like to do my part to make it easier for everyone to step back and...do those deep breathing exercises as needed in the future...

So, knowing I have no life anyway <chuckle>, feel free to PM me or email me or whatever as needed, okay?

sack36 · Post by **sack36** » Sat May 12, 2007 9:32 pm

I am very sorry, but I must take issue with that solution. I spend a great deal of time here in the evenings and well into the night, California time. Time and again I have needed an intervention from a mediator. Sometimes it's because we have a spambot filling every single thread with porn. Sometimes it's because we have a highly excited newbee posting inappropriate stuff in the wrong place and ignoring raspberries from all the other posters. Sometimes it's something else entirely. Each of these issues have been brought up before and they have been individually taken care of the next day. The overall issue of no mediator available at night has been acknowledged as a problem, but no solution has been forthcoming. Before we get too far away from the "We'll try our best." Could we please resolve this issue?

garnet · Post by **garnet** » Sat May 12, 2007 10:04 pm

First of all, let me just say that everything in the past two pages would probably be better suited in concerns and complaints, but this is where it was brought up, so I'll respond here.

Languorous Lass wrote:I've never seen The Leaky Cauldron (is it a Harry Potter site?), but I frankly don't understand why, if somebody doesn't want to read a lengthy post in a thread, s/he can't just ignore the post and read the next one(s).

That's what I generally do with the "Ooh! Ooh!" shipper posts that annoy the hell out of me. Occasionally I contribute a curmudgeonly mutter, but not nearly as often as I think evil thoughts about those posts.

Yes, Harry Potter website. They have seperate sections for threads about early books, predictions for the next book, and analysis. Honestly, the format here works okay for me, but there seem to be others who find it troublesome. I think that in order to meet everyone's needs, you'd first have to figure out why people come here. Some come for making predictions, some for discussing what was going on in previous videos. I can't really figure out exactly what the other reasons are because -- well, they don't really apply to me.

And LL, I'm so glad you used the term "shipper"!!! LOL! There are so many times when I wished there was a shipper's thread I could boot people to! I mean, yes, there is chemistry between certain actors/characters, but there are so many other things I would rather discuss. I guess these things mostly wind up in the character discussions, but sometimes they leak their way into other threads. So, yeah, that's probably the one thing I'd change. Mostly it works pretty well for me, but it sounded like some other posters wanted a clearer definition of where serious debate should belong.

sack36 · Post by **sack36** » Sun May 13, 2007 12:53 am

I really appreciate your attempts to be available, Chershaytoute. I know you guys have an amazing capacity to stay on top of things during the day. We forum frogs have posted more than 300,000 posts chock full of idiosyncrasies and possible bones of contention. It's a herculean task! But the one thing I really don't want to do is bother you when you have a migraine! I used to have them (thank God it was mostly due to high blood pressure! medicated now) I know how utterly devastating they can be. I'd rather lay off the forums than to put someone through that kind of pain and nausea for my comfort on a game!

I just don't think you should have to. What prevents the moderator group from appointing one of the true night owls as a moderator? We don't lack for activity at 3AM, truly!

Now I'll go read a book and get off here early so you can get some rest away from my whining. Good night. See you am...ish.

chershaytoute · Post by **chershaytoute** » Sun May 13, 2007 7:10 am

Sweet sack, I lay down when I need to, hope to sleep when I'm there...and am up when I can't deal with it... It's no problem, honest... <smile>

We're swerving wa-a-a-a-a-y off-topic here (as if we hadn't already, huh?), but moderators get brought on for more reasons than the time they're available. I happen to be around a lot at 3am, but not always. Of course, the East Coast contingent often has that time covered, too, since they're often just getting up... <chuckle> I'm more worried about 1am and 2am...

Anyway, let's at least try to return these good people to their regularly scheduled topic, shall we?

voyboy · Post by **voyboy** » Sun May 13, 2007 8:04 am

jesus christ.