Phase II

[xentis]

after this, i encourage on topicness

the creators are not going for one "religion" all tho this kinda fits into the story (crowely(sp?) and the book at one of the drops)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argenteum_Astrum

[RoseCrowley]

Yes you spelled my last name correctly.

[ladysolitary85]

Juli, you think they will go to any means to get her to do the Ceremony? I didn't think so before, but maybe now they are very desperate.

I know that when the Order talks of free will they dont mean a true free will. Like with the whole Human Ransom thing, they pretty much forced her too, but since she said she would go it was of her own free will kinda thing.

I wonder what kind of extreme lengths they will go to get her to do the ceremony. Brain washing with spin art perhaps?

Libra, I think your right about this, ok remember the movie "Lion Witch and Wardrobe?" (I promise there a point to this) remember when The lion made a sacrifice of himself for the boy's freedom? I think this is where it will be heading. I think the Order will make Bree choose between Daniel and Jonas freedom for her "will" to do the ceremony. Only I get the feeling theres going to be some blackmail with this deal.

[SoulAndroid13]

Libra, I think your right about this, ok remember the movie "Lion Witch and Wardrobe?" (I promise there a point to this) remember when The lion made a sacrifice of himself for the boy's freedom? I think this is where it will be heading. I think the Order will make Bree choose between Daniel and Jonas freedom for her "will" to do the ceremony. Only I get the feeling theres going to be some blackmail with this deal.

In the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, Aslan's death and sacrifice is a mimic of another religious sacrifice that's... oh... 2000 years old give or take a decade or two...

However, I don't think they would do this. They had their opportunity to follow this plan before(Using Daniel/Jonas as bargain for Bree's cooperation). All they want is posession of Bree. (Human Ransom) And from there she must make a choice to follow their wishes or not.

"But SoulAndroid also gave me an interesting idea. What if Bree was kind of long-termed brainwashed?..."

I'm glad I can stimulate such thoughts. As a psychology major, though, I have to dissagree. Deep brainwashing is not that easy to break, unfortunately. Just ask the members of Charles Manson's clique.

But her attitude of purity does probably have something to do with why she is so important. At some point during preparation their organization probably crossed a 'point of no return' so to speak.

[JustAnotherLonelyGirl.]

Libra, I think your right about this, ok remember the movie "Lion Witch and Wardrobe?" (I promise there a point to this) remember when The lion made a sacrifice of himself for the boy's freedom? I think this is where it will be heading. I think the Order will make Bree choose between Daniel and Jonas freedom for her "will" to do the ceremony. Only I get the feeling theres going to be some blackmail with this deal.

In the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, Aslan's death and sacrifice is a mimic of another religious sacrifice that's... oh... 2000 years old give or take a decade or two...

However, I don't think they would do this. They had their opportunity to follow this plan before(Using Daniel/Jonas as bargain for Bree's cooperation). All they want is posession of Bree. (Human Ransom) And from there she must make a choice to follow their wishes or not.

I believe that at this point, they may not plan on using Daniel/Jonas as a bargain (to agree with you). Bree does not strike me as the Jesus type, no offense. I see the connection with Aslan, but I don't think that will be the case. I think that at this point, they kidnapped Bree because they need direct interaction with her to convince her to do the Ceremony. Otherwise they would only have taken Jonas and Daniel, really.

But then another question arises: Why did they take Jonas and Daniel?
They have killed off members of the resistance before. Jonas's parents (alive or dead), were taken because they fought against the Order. That would explain their need for Jonas and Daniel.

Also, I feel like the 'brainwashing' is not just with spinart or whatever. I don't think you can brainwash someone that drastically in just a few days (as they supposedly did with Daniel). I strongly believe that drugs were involved. We know they have control over drugs such as Epogen. They probably have the power to obtain such mind-altering drugs as well. They aren't magical, and they can't cast magic spells over people. Brainwashing takes time. More than 3 days.

[SoulAndroid13]

I believe that at this point, they may not plan on using Daniel/Jonas as a bargain (to agree with you). Bree does not strike me as the Jesus type, no offense. I see the connection with Aslan, but I don't think that will be the case. I think that at this point, they kidnapped Bree because they need direct interaction with her to convince her to do the Ceremony. Otherwise they would only have taken Jonas and Daniel, really.

...

Also, I feel like the 'brainwashing' is not just with spinart or whatever. I don't think you can brainwash someone that drastically in just a few days (as they supposedly did with Daniel). I strongly believe that drugs were involved. We know they have control over drugs such as Epogen. They probably have the power to obtain such mind-altering drugs as well. They aren't magical, and they can't cast magic spells over people. Brainwashing takes time. More than 3 days.

My pointing out the Aslan->Jesus correlation was to point out that in the C. S. Lewis books, Aslan isn't just doing it for one person by his own admission. But that's a discussion for a very different forum...

In the video in question, I have no doubt that Daniel was under some sort of chemical influence. Even through the distortion you can tell his original speech is slurred by watching his mouth(indicating interference between the brain centers and the motor control needed for speech).