Threading the Needle

[spaciegirlreturn]

Plus, while it may be your "right" to speak, it's not anyone else's obligation to agree, listen to or even consider what you're saying.

[tannhaus]

Plus, while it may be your "right" to speak, it's not anyone else's obligation to agree, listen to or even consider what you're saying.

But it is my duty to do so...and to fight to make the world a better place

[tannhaus]

Plus, while it may be your "right" to speak, it's not anyone else's obligation to agree, listen to or even consider what you're saying.

I'm actually not even sure why you went off on this tangent...unless it was just to pick a fight. It doesn't have much to do with the original discussion at all. However, most of what you've said are things *I* have said....so unless you're just trying to jump ship and automatically declare your support for many of my statements and my stance...I'm not sure what the point is.

[spaciegirlreturn]

better for who?
edit- it was just an afterthought
edit 2- it has nothing to do with trying to start a fight and it is on topic because the same type idea could be said for the forum.

[tannhaus]

better for who?

For the individual and society at large. No one said anything about forcing others to do anything. You're the one that brought that up.

[iamcool]

serious tanhaus, u have no idea what you are talking about

[wintermute]

serious tanhaus, u have no idea what you are talking about

Josh,

This discussion is surprisingly civil between these two. I think I'm gonna bow out and let it progress naturally unless it becomes otherwise. Unless you have constructive input as to why tannhaus doesn't know what he's talking about, then I'd suggest you do the same (remember; attack the argument, not the person. I see nothing in your post attacking the argument)

'mute

[Ziola]

I understand what you are both saying completely. And as for the comment that I am a parent, why yes I am. And I don't know any other parents with kids the same age as mine who approach sex quite so openly (my son is 8, my daughter is 4 and they both know that if they want to touch themselves, they may do so in the bathroom alone or in their rooms alone with the doors shut. Its called happy time. They also know that when you reach a certain age, you get to share happy time like mom and dad. ). What I was trying to say, albeit very crappily, is that some parents are not as involved and therefore do not know what their children are doing. And since their parents are not monitoring what their children are involved in, it is up to the moderators and the Creators to keep this a marginally safe place for them to be. So while talk of sex and violence may be something that does not phase the adults here, for the "children" (for lack of better term), who come here, it might not be quite so appropriate. Therefore, it is the job of the moderators to censor us, even though we might have no issue with what is being said and discussed (sex,drugs, violence) someone else might. It is just the way things work, unfortunately. While it isn't our job to keep an eye on others children, neither is it our job to open their eyes to what might be considered adult topics.

[spaciegirlreturn]

better for who?

For the individual and society at large. No one said anything about forcing others to do anything. You're the one that brought that up.

Yeah...in your opinion it would be better for the individual and society at large. That's what I mean. It seems to me that you automatically think your way is the way or the better way. I think most people do that, it's normal. I mean people obviously think what they think becuase they believe it to be right...but that doesn't mean that it is. That's all I'm saying.

[AutoPilate]

Yeah? Well, it is for society at large. So there.




























(;))

[spaciegirlreturn]

[Sad Panda]

Wow. This is a great discussion. And it's so refreshing to see people aruge a point in an even tempered and thoughtful manner.

And I don't have much to say besides this ... obscenity is a very subjective concept. Even the Supreme Court can't define it, so it's understandable why there is no clear cut guidelines for what is an acceptable post/thread and what is a naughty post/thread.

As such, moderators have to use thier own personal value system (or, if you're like me and have no values, you go against community standards) to discern what should be moved/locked/deleted and what can stay. Unfortunetly, it is inevitable that this will cause friction.

... I have more to say on the subject, but my boss just walked in the office. I'll rejoin the convo later.

[Taig]

Ziola: point taken, not given mind you but I understand where you are coming from.

--------------------------------------------------------

As far as I am concerned I don't expect to change anyones mind and it's not likely I'll change mine. I do want to understand though.

Understanding where people are coming from doesn't often make me agree but it just makes it a whole lot easier for me to accept.

Tannhaus makes some pretty solid arguments, I sometimes suspect there is some professional training there . Spaciegirl scores every bit as often. She said something just a few psots above that made me smile

it may be your "right" to speak, it's not anyone else's obligation to agree

I guess I have to paraphrase that by saying it's your right to beleive what you beleive but it's not my obligation to agree.

That's what keeps the good ol' USA workin' and frankly it is the failure to allow for the above that is at the root of a some pretty big poblems we face today outside the Breeniverse.

Now it's back to hard part. HOw do we let you allow you (or me) to beleive what you beleive without me being obligated to endure or abide it?

Let me throw this one out there. It may sound circular on it's face but read it a couple of times.

Could it be that if what you believe effects is more than I can abide or endure than what you beleive must be wrong? Or is it that if I am unable to abide or endure what it is you believe than I must be wrong?

[Ziola]

OOOFFF!! Taig, your last sentence really made my poor little brain hurt for a minute. But it is a valid point. I think what happens is just that, if it is something that we don't believe in, or agree with, then it must be wrong. And I don't mean just us, it is a societal sickness. I'll give you an example...I had a family start taking classes with me this year for the first time. I do not hide the fact that I am not married not do I hide the fact that my fiance is not my sons father. When I refer to Jay (my fiance) in the studio I call him my hubby and immediately follow it up with "for lack of a better term". Well, one of the girls asked me in class one day what my wedding was like. And I told her that I wasn't married. She then asked me if my divorce was rough. And I told her that I had never been married. Her reply was "You have to have been married. You have children." I said that technically you don't have to be married to have children, but that it wasn't something that I recommend people trying. The family left me a message on my studio voicemail saying that, due to my loose morals, they wouldn't be attending the studio anymore.

I think that pretty much sums it up. It doesn't offend me, I have no problem with it, so it must be right. But if offended them, they had a huge problem with it, so it must be wrong.

I think that we get so caught up in the black and white of everything that we forget about the shades of grey.

[wintermute]

I think that we get so caught up in the black and white of everything that we forget about the shades of grey.

And the greys are where beauty lies

'mute