Lonelygirl15

First off, I absolutely appreciate everyone's interest. To be honest, although many of us were aware that a redesign was needed, since no one else expressed that urgency or requested a change, I'm surprised everyone is so quick to trash the new system. I'd request that everyone give it time, and if a change is needed, we can make it.

As immortal said, the reality is that you will almost surely be looking in two threads: New Releases and In-Development. The Archive was intended for threads that had not been touched since 2006 as well as a few threads about videos that no longer exist. I see a few topics got moved there that are more recent, and I'll move those back. I did unlock this forum, but I encourage folks not to post into those topics or, if they need to, request they be moved to In-Depth Discussion due to new relevance.

The real issue is that there is no ARG the size of Cassieiswatching or OpAphid in their prime. While we're all thrilled by the attention and interest in Facility J right now, it's pretty recent. If it grows and does require a forum of its own in the future, we'll consider it. The problem was, many other videos were being lost in the old forum, and that won't happen now. I think you'll find that the ongoing series (HSA, Facility J) that require in-depth discussion will be conducted in that area, and all new releases will receive equal attention in the New Releases area.

I think this new system will work great if we all give it some time. If it needs tweaking, we're open to that. But let's see how it works!

Actually several of us, asked trainer a few times about seeing if facility j could have it's own category. Since HSA and Cassie already had their own categories there was no reason to bring either of them up. He said you guys were already working on a re design. *shrugs* we had brought it up before. And it's not like anyone ever asks for our opinions about anything, so we always have to come out after you guys throw stuff at us.

ShardinsKitten wrote:Actually several of us, asked trainer a few times about seeing if facility j could have it's own category. Since HSA and Cassie already had their own categories there was no reason to bring either of them up. He said you guys were already working on a re design. *shrugs* we had brought it up before. And it's not like anyone ever asks for our opinions about anything, so we always have to come out after you guys throw stuff at us.

We're always open to suggestions and opinions!

Much of the old format was legacy, when HSA and CiW were very active and needed their own forums. But both were fairly slow and only composed of a few active threads. Facility J, right now, is still composed of a few active threads rather than driving the kind of discussion those ARGs/interactive stories did in their prime.

But again, we can tweak things if the new system doesn't work out. I do appreciate the suggestions!

I haven't invested the brain-work to analyze or criticize the past or present forum organization... my rough impression is that the new groupings are pretty sensible, but maybe some accomodation/tweak needs to be added for subforums for popular arg-things or series made by fans (that generate lots of threads).

Anyway, I thought moderators or those organizing things might like to see one other site that does a pretty good job of organizing a large number of stories (in this case TV shows and movies) that vary in popularity and also change over time...

http://www.flicksnshows.com/

Shows with a following get their own subforums. Old shows move to a graveyard. There is a place for a collection of "other" shows where one thread covers them, and there is a place to "suggest" a show. Episodes of a specific show are analogous to videos of a specific series on this site.

In the Flicks section, there are a number of topics of interest, and an Etc. section for stuff that does not fit anywhere else.

Maybe something in the way that site is organized/moderated could apply here.

ShardinsKitten wrote:Actually several of us, asked trainer a few times about seeing if facility j could have it's own category. Since HSA and Cassie already had their own categories there was no reason to bring either of them up. He said you guys were already working on a re design. *shrugs* we had brought it up before. And it's not like anyone ever asks for our opinions about anything, so we always have to come out after you guys throw stuff at us.

You weren't ignored. I did initially ask for a "Facility J" area. After discussion with the Creators and the folks working on the restructuring, this was the format we came up with to accommodate as many people with varying viewpoints as possible. As far as a future home for Facility J, I will defer to BK.

In the meantime, I am still working on moving things to more appropriate areas and can move all of the Facility J threads to "Discussion" if you think that will help.

i think this idea works a lot better then what many people are giving it credit.
Not only is it more orginized and more informative in the end, but it stops the "hurt feelings" mentality that I saw a few people getting concerning FacilityJ, Neural Net and other ARGs that exsist in the breeniverse.
The fact that certain ARGs had specific sections deticated to them, when they weren't as active as others, made people feel a slight notion that CiW/HSA we're better then others, even though this was the furthest from the truth then ever.
This new design enables every fanfic to get their equal share of spotlight and discussion that it should have. Plus the new design allows the fans to interact with each other more effiecently, allowing us to not only have fanfics, but to intereact with each other and further develope out community/universe as a well oiled, cooperating machine.

Thanks, Kelly. I think that was well said...

I look at the activity in that area today, and I think it perfectly represents what we're hoping for:
- People are using the In Development section to discuss getting music for videos.
- In the Lobby, folks are discussing another, non-LG15-related video and the April Fool's Day joke.
- In New Releases, there are four or five active threads that let each video (whether a series or not) get equal attention, and folks found them easily.
- In In-Depth Discussion, there's a few active threads on Facility J, a renewed plea for LGS422's return, and some discussion of cassieresurrection.

While we absolutely envision a few series (like Facility J or HSA) will get more activity than others, I think this breakdown shows that the non-ARGs and other areas are getting more visibility and attention as well.

Just throwing my opinion out there.
As a faithful HSAO student.

I think the indevelopment section is great. As is the lobby.

Where I have a problem is the new release and in depth discussion. there can be confusion, there is in depth discussion on the new release board. And going back and forth is a pain.
Weeding through the different threads to find the ones pertaining to the story you are following is a pain (OK call me lazy)

But I have avoided the Facility J story for this reason. I find it too disorganized , so I don't bother. (lazy again)

I also find that someone just coming in to something like HSA is having a very difficult time finding the old stuff and putting it all together.
So I'm basically saying that this can work, but I have problems with it because I am lazy

I have to say, first, that I admire the mods for doing the hard work of re-organization (or rather, organization, since some of this stuff was had never been orderly in the first place). Having read all the posts in this thread, I can appreciate both sides of the issue, the "this is better" and the "this is not better" ones.

All I can really add, I think, is a description of my current personal experience. I got some time off work because it's spring break at the university where I teach, and since I couldn't go on a trip I'd decided I was going to "vacation" by catching up and getting involved in HSA. I chose HSA over Facility J partly because all its threads were in one place and I felt I'd be able to become current easily, without missing important past events that I didn't even know to hunt for.

In the middle of my catching up, that sub-forum disappeared, and now I'm lost again, despite the fact that I have substantial time (for now) to hunt down wayward threads. Over the period since the changes, I've had to admit that I'm not going to catch up on HSA, because I can't locate reliably all the discussions that went on before I got involved.

I never got involved in Facility J, despite the fact that I greatly wanted to, because I felt the disorganization of its threads would handicap me. Now the previously organized storyline I did choose, HSA, is equally disorganized. Basically, what this re-vamp of the forum has done, at least in my case, is make me less likely and able to participate in anything outside the main LG15 storyline.

TheFatLady wrote:I never got involved in Facility J, despite the fact that I greatly wanted to, because I felt the disorganization of its threads would handicap me. Now the previously organized storyline I did choose, HSA, is equally disorganized. Basically, what this re-vamp of the forum has done, at least in my case, is make me less likely and able to participate in anything outside the main LG15 storyline.

In the case of Facilty J, it's LGPedia entry is extensive. In fact there is a section specifically for LGPedia Facility J Discussion Archive Section

sparkybennett wrote:Where I have a problem is the new release and in depth discussion. there can be confusion, there is in depth discussion on the new release board. And going back and forth is a pain.
Weeding through the different threads to find the ones pertaining to the story you are following is a pain (OK call me lazy)

But I have avoided the Facility J story for this reason. I find it too disorganized , so I don't bother. (lazy again)

Again I recommend the LGPedia: LGPedia HSA Entry

The Forum and the LGPedia each has their own purpose. Sure if HSA or Facility J each had their own Forum section it would be easier but then why have an LGPedia?

Are there any suggestions other than give XYZ their own section? If you think it would help if the HSA LGPedia entry had a Forum Discussion Archive section like Facilty J's, let's discuss that. Or maybe a sticky in the In Depth section that is basically a directory of links similar to the Facility J Forum Discussion Archive Section? Maybe a Facilty J Directory sticky in both the New Releases and In Depth section that has links to all threads in both sections? And the same for HSA?

immortal1 wrote:In the case of Facilty J, it's LGPedia entry is extensive. In fact there is a section specifically for LGPedia Facility J Discussion Archive Section

.....

Again I recommend the LGPedia: LGPedia HSA Entry

The Forum and the LGPedia each has their own purpose. Sure if HSA or Facility J each had their own Forum section it would be easier but then why have an LGPedia?

The problem with the LGPedia, is that it can be very confusing to some (me included). During OpAphid and CiW, I relied on summary and catch up threads, because the LGPedia can be very difficult to navigate, and has so much content in one place, its hard to sort through it all. Thats also why I wrote summary threads whenever I fully understood something.

romanceismusic wrote:The problem with the LGPedia, is that it can be very confusing to some (me included). During OpAphid and CiW, I relied on summary and catch up threads, because the LGPedia can be very difficult to navigate, and has so much content in one place, its hard to sort through it all.

To me when we are talking specifically about looking at the history of something we are talking about the LGPedia. If it doesn't work we should be discussing how to make it work rather than how the forum can compensate. Don't get me wrong I think for the most part the LGPedia works. I also think the new Fan Creation organization for the most part works. Organization and structure can't solve every problem.

romanceismusic wrote:Thats also why I wrote summary threads whenever I fully understood something.

But wasn't that just a band-aid? Maybe if we had figured out a way to make the LGPedia work for OpAphid we could have applied that to Facility J and HSA. Just like I suggested stickied directory threads- I'm confident that would solve the problem but a year from now we could have who knows how many stickied directory threads.

immortal1 wrote:

TheFatLady wrote:I never got involved in Facility J, despite the fact that I greatly wanted to, because I felt the disorganization of its threads would handicap me. Now the previously organized storyline I did choose, HSA, is equally disorganized. Basically, what this re-vamp of the forum has done, at least in my case, is make me less likely and able to participate in anything outside the main LG15 storyline.

In the case of Facilty J, it's LGPedia entry is extensive. In fact there is a section specifically for LGPedia Facility J Discussion Archive Section

sparkybennett wrote:Where I have a problem is the new release and in depth discussion. there can be confusion, there is in depth discussion on the new release board. And going back and forth is a pain.
Weeding through the different threads to find the ones pertaining to the story you are following is a pain (OK call me lazy)

But I have avoided the Facility J story for this reason. I find it too disorganized , so I don't bother. (lazy again)

Again I recommend the LGPedia: LGPedia HSA Entry

The Forum and the LGPedia each has their own purpose. Sure if HSA or Facility J each had their own Forum section it would be easier but then why have an LGPedia?

Are there any suggestions other than give XYZ their own section? If you think it would help if the HSA LGPedia entry had a Forum Discussion Archive section like Facilty J's, let's discuss that. Or maybe a sticky in the In Depth section that is basically a directory of links similar to the Facility J Forum Discussion Archive Section? Maybe a Facilty J Directory sticky in both the New Releases and In Depth section that has links to all threads in both sections? And the same for HSA?

Maintaining these LGpedia sites is very labor intensive, so far, I have been the primary person who is maintaining the Facility J site, and I can tell you it's a HUGE amount of work. And everytime the Facility J threads get moved around by the moderators, I have to go and check all the links, repairing any that get broken. As the ARG pics up, this may be more work than myself and other Facility J volunteers can keep up with. It's the same problem for all the other ARGs. With the current architecture of the Fan Fic section, I think it will be nearly impossible for existing ARGs to attract new players, or for new ARG's to get off the ground at all.

This isn't fair to the people who work so hard to create their games, it's not fair to the people who have to maintain the LGpedia pages, and it's not fair to the people who want to play the games, and get discouraged because they can't catch up on the back story, or easily access the active threads. Frankly it's just a nightmare.

The LGpedia page is not designed for keeping track of forum threads. That's what forum categories, topics and subtopics are designed for. It would be so much simpler to have all ARG discussions in their own unique location on the forum. ARGs have very different needs than other fanfic because there are multiple threads going simultaneously, and they generate a tremendous amount of in depth discussion.

The arrangement I would prefer is for fanfic ARG's to be separated from other fanfic completely, in their own section of the forum. Within that section, there could be a section for new releases - new ARGs, that don't yet have a substantial following, and then a section for each active ARG that has a dedicated following, a complex backstory that must be understood to play, and is generating several active discussion threads. So yes, X,Y,Z would all need their own threads.

immortal1 wrote: If it doesn't work we should be discussing how to make it work rather than how the forum can compensate.

Actually, I would say the reverse is true. See my post above. You are asking us to make the LGpedia compensate for what the forum should be doing. The LGpedia is an encyclopedia. It should not be required to keep discussions organized. That is the function of a forum.

Luminous wrote:Maintaining these LGpedia sites is very labor intensive, so far, I have been the primary person who is maintaining the Facility J site, and I can tell you it's a HUGE amount of work. And everytime the Facility J threads get moved around by the moderators, I have to go and check all the links, repairing any that get broken.

It really is a huge amount of work to do anything like this, and I'm sure it's appreciated! In our defense, this is the first time that the threads have been moved/reorganized, and it was intended to keep all fanfic organized.

As the ARG pics up, this may be more work than myself and other Facility J volunteers can keep up with. It's the same problem for all the other ARGs. With the current architecture of the Fan Fic section, I think it will be nearly impossible for existing ARGs to attract new players, or for new ARG's to get off the ground at all.

The problem here (and with the discussion of HSA above) is that neither of those two series (nor any other) have had the kind of traffic that made us feel a separate forum was justified. Traffic in the HSA forum had dropped significantly, and the PM even suggested we combine it, as the focus had shifted to new videos. When CiW was broken out into one (and then several) areas of its own, it had many times the traffic and discussion as any other area (except, perhaps, the OpAphid areas).

The suggestion of separating ARGs out could be more confusing. For example, is HSA an ARG? The organizer of HSA didn't believe so. Are there other ARGs? Perhaps a few that have significantly less traffic.

Our goal is not to add significantly to the overall site. We would rather have a few forums in regular use than many forums that get little use. In the previous format, we had one forum that got all the discussion and two (cassie and HSA) that got little). Now I see more significant discussion in all four areas...

Seriously, the biggest issue I've heard from users so far is that expressed by sparky. Instead of one forum, there's now two. But by having two forums for a discussion of HSA or Facility J or others, we now feel that other fan fiction is given an equal footing.