Lonelygirl15

Posted: **Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:12 am**

http://www.crypticcavern.com/holidays/Imb.htm
Imbolg

This time of year has many different meanings for cultures all around the world. Centuries ago winter was a tuff and hard time. The days were short and the nights were long, food was scarce and the promise of spring was far away. This time of year is celebrated all over the world with a variety of traditions that go back thousands of years. The holiday celebrated on February 2nd is called by many names. You many know it as Imbolg, Imbolc, Candlemas, the Feast Day of Saint Blaise, Oimelc )meaning "milk of ewes"), Laa'l Breeshey and Saint Bridget's Day.

This is the holiday Pagans honor Brid (Breed) a figure who was known the best as a goddess of the Celtic. She is also known as Bridgit (Bree-id), Brigit, Brede or Bride in her maiden aspect.

In some legends she is described as the daughter of the Dagda, the Celtic "Father of All" and "Lord of The Great Knowledge" a warrior and protector who was paired with the Morrigan. Other say that Brigit was his consort and Dagda is a god of abundance who fed the world with his cauldron called Undry.

Brigit is the goddess of sovereignty. She is a fire deity and some believe a sun goddess. Because of the connection of the growing season she is also thought of as a fertility goddess.She was also known as the patroness of smithcraft. She was said to have taught the original smiths their art.

This holiday is most commonly called Imbolg (Em-bowl/g) meaning "in the belly". In the womb of Mother Earth, the seed that was planted in her womb at the solstice is now awakening as the new year grows.

Posted: **Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:35 am**

Pretty interesting stuff. It could imply that the ceremony i supposed to happen in the spring (?) and would involve impregnating Bree (?) but what does it have to do with the structure of this story?

Posted: **Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:31 am**

Why does Imbolg have to be the relevant holiday? What about Samhain, which takes place just next week?
http://www.crypticcavern.com/holidays/Sam.htm

It's the holiday associated with sacrifice, which Bree already mentioned in one of her vids. It's also the end of the old year, and the time when the living can communicate most easily with the dead.

The website you linked to says that scholars are divided over whether human sacrifice was practiced by the Celts, but I'm not sure what connection (if any) the Celts have with the Order of Denderah.

The main question I have is: Does the specific location of Nottinghamshire have significance to the story? (Is Nottinghamshire anywhere near Stonehenge?)

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:37 am**

storyteller wrote:Anyone want to help me figure out where we are and what might happen next??

I've found this version of the Hero Cycle to be very useful:
http://ias.berkeley.edu/orias/hero/index.htm
Roll over each step to see its description. I agree with you, storyteller, that it helps us understand why we love LG15 so much.

Because this is a love story, I think Bree and Daniel are each half of "our hero." They each have an individual cycle, and combined they make up the hero cycle of LG15. Their cycles are out of sync, which gives us the tension between them that really makes this story go.

Daniel's cycle is straightforward in most places:
1. Call to Adventure: doubts about Bree's religion and the ceremony.
2. Helper/Amulet: his video camera?
3. Crossing the Threshold: his concern for Bree leads him to stalk her.
4. Tests: he perseveres even in the face of doubt and danger, and even breaks laws.
5. Helper: still the video camera (and by extension, us)

This is where he is now. The big test is yet to come, but he and Bree are certainly getting their adversary out into the open.

Bree's cycle is more subtle.
1. Call to Adventure: it's not the ceremony, it's Daniel (being more than friends with Daniel).
2. Helper/Amulet: her video camera? (and by extension, us). The camera leads her further into adventure with Daniel.
3. Crossing the Threshold: sneaking out with Daniel. She refuses the call and goes back to her old ways (being the obedient daughter) but wavers when she learns Daniel is in possible danger and crosses the threshold again for good when Daniel calls when he is hiding out.
4. Tests: telling her parents she refuses to do the ceremony.
5. Helper: Gemma. But watch out, this helper may actually be a test!

Bree and Daniel are synced up again for the moment, and they are heading for the Climax/Final Battle... but being a love story they might get out of sync again before they get there.

6. Climax/Final Battle: Probably more than just getting those Order Elders off Bree's case, it will be a reconciliation between Bree and Daniel regarding belief and trust.

This is how I read it, anyway. Your mileage may vary.... Sorry for XXXL post.

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:09 am**

SharpI wrote:
I've found this version of the Hero Cycle to be very useful:
http://ias.berkeley.edu/orias/hero/index.htm
Roll over each step to see its description.

Ooooh! I like this description. I've been trying to wade through Campbell again, but this is much easier!

SharpI wrote: Because this is a love story, I think Bree and Daniel are each half of "our hero." They each have an individual cycle, and combined they make up the hero cycle of LG15. Their cycles are out of sync, which gives us the tension between them that really makes this story go.

That's a really interesting idea... So if Bree's quest is for independence (jmo) then what would Daniel's quest be for?

Isn't is possible that, even though they are both on their own quest, that they could be each other's magical helper? Obviously the amulet is the camera (and us by proxy)- so clever!

SharpI wrote:
Bree's cycle is more subtle.
1. Call to Adventure: it's not the ceremony, it's Daniel (being more than friends with Daniel).
2. Helper/Amulet: her video camera? (and by extension, us). The camera leads her further into adventure with Daniel.
3. Crossing the Threshold: sneaking out with Daniel. She refuses the call and goes back to her old ways (being the obedient daughter) but wavers when she learns Daniel is in possible danger and crosses the threshold again for good when Daniel calls when he is hiding out.
4. Tests: telling her parents she refuses to do the ceremony.
5. Helper: Gemma. But watch out, this helper may actually be a test!

This is really good- the call to adventure is often the part that throws me off. Daniel was the start of all of her tension at home and her choice to be friends with him is a big part of claiming her independence.

Ah ha! You have studied Campbell before haven't you!?

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:08 am**

storyteller wrote:This is really good- the call to adventure is often the part that throws me off. Daniel was the start of all of her tension at home and her choice to be friends with him is a big part of claiming her independence.

Yes, well put.

storyteller wrote:Ah ha! You have studied Campbell before haven't you!?

Guilty as charged!

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:29 am**

storyteller wrote:That's a really interesting idea... So if Bree's quest is for independence (jmo) then what would Daniel's quest be for?

I don't have a pat answer for that yet. Bree's independence is an element of Daniel's quest, because then she's free to be with him. But I think his true quest is his own character emerging. In the beginning, he was way overshadowed by Bree, and somewhat formless. Now we know a lot about him - he's opened up.

I guess I would say Daniel's quest is for his moral character. Breaking into Lucy's apartment was a defining moment. He discovered that he thinks nothing of breaking the law if he believes a friend's happiness may be at stake. I think we will see him be even braver before this is over.

storyteller wrote:Isn't is possible that, even though they are both on their own quest, that they could be each other's magical helper?

Yes, this is very astute. To me, the "magical helper" is that which makes this quest extraordinary, and the relationship of one to the other fills the bill in this story. Good point.

Posted: **Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:24 pm**

I thought I’d go back and revisit this…

All quotes come from http://www.mcli.dist.maricopa.edu/smc/j ... mmary.html

The Departure
1. The Call to Adventure- Bree's News that She would be Participating in the Ceremony (could have started a while back when she started her purification)
2. Refusal of the Call-Because she initially accepted the responsibility of the ceremony, I think that she can no longer refuse the call- I don’t think this is where we are-. "Often when the call is given, the future hero refuses to heed it. This may be from a sense of duty or obligation, fear, insecurity, a sense of inadequacy, or any of a range of reasons that work to hold the person in his or her current circumstances." Bree does not feel held to her current circumstances anymore.
3. Supernatural Aid- Daniel?- obviously Owen and P Monkey are something that Lucy has encouraged because it allows her to separate herself from Daniel with less trauma- Daniel is the one who is going to aid her in her journey toward independence and adulthood. Gemma may come into this as well, if we can ever figure out if she's legit.
4. The Crossing of the First Threshold- This is the point where the person actually crosses into the field of adventure, leaving the known limits of his or her world and venturing into an unknown and dangerous realm where the rules and limits are not known.
5. The Belly of the Whale- This is where Bree Hides or flees from her parents/the Order? This insinuates that she may be separated form Daniel for a time as well. I’m not actually sure we’re done with this.

Inititation-
1. The Road of Trials – here we are….
2. The Meeting with the Goddess - Well, I’m pretty sure this will be Jonas – something about this makes her stop “seeing herself in a dualistic way.” Likely this is where she stops expecting Daniel to take care of her and steps up. I’ve got two theories about this. They’re below.
3. Woman as the Temptress ( step is about those temptations that may lead the hero to abandon or stray from his or her quest) – An encounter that makes her question her opposition to the Order.
4. Atonement with the Father – some sort of confrontation or reconciliation with her parents- “For the transformation to take place, the person as he or she has been must be "killed" so that the new self can come into being. Sometime this killing is literal, and the earthly journey for that character is either over or moves into a different realm.”
5. Apotheosis a period of rest, peace and fulfillment before the hero begins the return.

6. The Ultimate Boon – I’m still not completely sure what Bree’s ultimate goal is here. Adulthood is most likely since she has been so incredibly immature since her parents were taken. Whatever it is, she has been working up to this Change in her life.

Return - Sometimes this part isn’t completely filled out. We’ll see.

1. Refusal of the Return
2. The Magic Flight
3. Rescue from Without
4. The Crossing of the Return Threshold
5. Master of the Two Worlds- “achieving a balance between the material and spiritual. The person has become comfortable and competent in both the inner and outer worlds.”
6. Freedom to Live

There are two possibilities here:
1. Jonas is the God in which “represents the point in the adventure when the person experiences a love that has the power and significance of the all-powerful, all encompassing, unconditional love that a fortunate infant may experience with his or her mother.” Which means that she will move from a love interest with Daniel to Jonas- gag me.
2. Jonas is the temptress. His job is to get Bree comfortable and focused away from her journey and her fear of the Order. I think this is the most likely option.

A lot of people think that Jonas is just some nice guy who will take Bree and Daniel in, but what would really happen then? Nothing. I think it’s more likely that OpAhid’s (I) Infiltrate is what Jonas is trying to do. He wants to distract Bree from her journey. Daniel is much more likely to be Bree’s “god” since he’s already proved himself willing to take care of Bree and keep her safe.

By the way-
I’m also very interested in the stories that the order tells. I think OpAphid said (in response to someone’s questioning her about Gemma’s different interpretation of the term) that there are many different stories told. I’m wondering if the children aren’t told stories to help them understand this idea- and if so, what those stories are, and what they might reveal about the order. I don’t really have time to follow OpAphid very closely, so if anyone wants to question her about that, please do!

Posted: **Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:22 pm**

I had interpretated the "many stories they tell children" more as there are many half-truths or outright lies we tell children... almost every fairy tale has a much darker, deeper meaning then we give it today.

The monomyth can apply to nearly every story in some way...

Posted: **Tue Nov 28, 2006 6:04 pm**

storyteller wrote: There are two possibilities here:
1. Jonas is the God in which “represents the point in the adventure when the person experiences a love that has the power and significance of the all-powerful, all encompassing, unconditional love that a fortunate infant may experience with his or her mother.” Which means that she will move from a love interest with Daniel to Jonas- gag me.
2. Jonas is the temptress. His job is to get Bree comfortable and focused away from her journey and her fear of the Order. I think this is the most likely option.

A lot of people think that Jonas is just some nice guy who will take Bree and Daniel in, but what would really happen then? Nothing. I think it’s more likely that OpAhid’s (I) Infiltrate is what Jonas is trying to do. He wants to distract Bree from her journey. Daniel is much more likely to be Bree’s “god” since he’s already proved himself willing to take care of Bree and keep her safe.

Interesting post. On a larger scale, I tend to believe that Bree is moving into the Belly of the Whale just now.

Partly, because of timing. I think the creators want this to go on for awhile. Also, partly because the symbolism of water seems to be coming up. First, you have Jonas (bible, belly of the whale guy). Second, you also have the fact that Bree won't get into the water or a pool. She just kinda stares at it. She loved cold water befooorrrre...so what gives? Now it's dirty and icky? Like her mind?

It's as if she's avoiding having to examine herself and make the choice to completely sacrifice her old beliefs and identity. She's just not going there. She's still in lala land, talking to her muppets, so any trials she might have in this phase.. could be her tipping her toe hesitantly into the pool as she slowly gains the courage to piece together a new identity. Altho, it could be argued she 'has' gone deep..so deep that P.Monkey has taken over. Whatever, the case, this phase could seriously be drawn out... I mean she's so shattered that I don't think it's realistic for her to get it together and go Tachyon/Buffy in a *snap*. (as much as I'd like to see that happen. I feel like I might die of old age before she puts the puppets down)

For this phase, enter Jonas who being older with more experience and with his similar backround.. the timing just seems spot on for him to act as either benevolent Guide or a Trickster/Bad Guide. Either way, his name suggests a new watery phase of going deep and of introspection. Things he says can help trigger in Bree a new self-awarness that she desperately needs.

Then, I can see her being mentally sound enough to move on to a real Trials phase.

Posted: **Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:18 pm**

wow.

You guys are seriously impressive!

(I've nothing to contribute re your steps as I'm still absorbing it all, but just had to say this whole theory is great!)

Posted: **Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:23 pm**

Pi wrote:
storyteller wrote:
Interesting post. On a larger scale, I tend to believe that Bree is moving into the Belly of the Whale just now.

Partly, because of timing. I think the creators want this to go on for awhile. Also, partly because the symbolism of water seems to be coming up. First, you have Jonas (bible, belly of the whale guy). Second, you also have the fact that Bree won't get into the water or a pool. She just kinda stares at it. She loved cold water befooorrrre...so what gives? Now it's dirty and icky? Like her mind?

It's as if she's avoiding having to examine herself and make the choice to completely sacrifice her old beliefs and identity. She's just not going there. She's still in lala land, talking to her muppets, so any trials she might have in this phase.. could be her tipping her toe hesitantly into the pool as she slowly gains the courage to piece together a new identity. Altho, it could be argued she 'has' gone deep..so deep that P.Monkey has taken over. Whatever, the case, this phase could seriously be drawn out... I mean she's so shattered that I don't think it's realistic for her to get it together and go Tachyon/Buffy in a *snap*. (as much as I'd like to see that happen. I feel like I might die of old age before she puts the puppets down)

For this phase, enter Jonas who being older with more experience and with his similar backround.. the timing just seems spot on for him to act as either benevolent Guide or a Trickster/Bad Guide. Either way, his name suggests a new watery phase of going deep and of introspection. Things he says can help trigger in Bree a new self-awarness that she desperately needs.

Then, I can see her being mentally sound enough to move on to a real Trials phase.
I had considered that- but the idea of being in the belly of the whale is generally associated with being isolated- completely isolated and having to confront one's personal demons without the distraction of others. BUt I couldn't see the creators isolating Bree at this point- particularly since they are introducing new characters.
However, one description of this stage says: "The separation has been made, or is being made, or being fully recognized between the old world and old self and the potential for a new world/self. The experiences that will shape the new world and self will begin shortly, or may be beginning with this experience which is often symbolized by something dark, unknown and frightening. By entering this stage, the person shows their willingness to undergo a metamorphosis, to die to him or herself."

It's possible that Bree's continued immaturity is a sign that she hasn't really entered the Belly of the whale, yet. You may very well be right. I'm excited to see what happens next.

Thanks!
I'm going to look at the water imagery more next.

Posted: **Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:55 pm**

I did an extended essay (4000 words) on this subject, focused on Star Wars for school once.

It's very interesting isnt it? There are always some similarities in the story. Even in lonelygirl we can find these archetypes. Though in this case, its more confusing. Who is the hero? who is the villain? who is the damsel in distress? what is the prophecy? etc...

5. The Belly of the Whale- This is where Bree Hides or flees from her parents/the Order? This insinuates that she may be separated form Daniel for a time as well. I’m not actually sure we’re done with this.

Remember that entering the belly of the whale is a symbol. When the hero emerges from the belly of the whale he is reborn in some way, whether spiritual or corporal. In the case of Luke Skywalker, this is when he enters the "bowels" of cloud city to face darth vader, and he emerges transformed in body (he lost his hand) and mind (the truth about his father changes him completely)

Posted: **Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:08 pm**

Inigo wrote:I did an extended essay (4000 words) on this subject, focused on Star Wars for school once.

It's very interesting isnt it? There are always some similarities in the story. Even in lonelygirl we can find these archetypes. Though in this case, its more confusing. Who is the hero? who is the villain? who is the damsel in distress? what is the prophecy? etc...

5. The Belly of the Whale- This is where Bree Hides or flees from her parents/the Order? This insinuates that she may be separated form Daniel for a time as well. I’m not actually sure we’re done with this.

Remember that entering the belly of the whale is a symbol. When the hero emerges from the belly of the whale he is reborn in some way, whether spiritual or corporal. In the case of Luke Skywalker, this is when he enters the "bowels" of cloud city to face darth vader, and he emerges transformed in body (he lost his hand) and mind (the truth about his father changes him completely)

I have a feeling that the true roles of these characters have not all been revealed yet... I don't really see Bree losing a hand

but i am anxious to see what will finally cause a change in her. Obviously the loss of her parents and hiding in hotel rooms hasn't made a great change.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:39 pm**

I don't think there are any "secrets" to this, just a scholarly way of laying out good storytelling

HOWEVER, fantastic thread and possibly a way to keep an eye on the way things are going. Thank you for posting this!

Lonelygirl15

monomyth application??

Re: monomyth and Hero Cycle

Re: monomyth and Hero Cycle

Re: monomyth and Hero Cycle

Re: monomyth and Hero Cycle

More information and some theories...

Re: More information and some theories...

Re: More information and some theories...