Lonelygirl15

This is all very nice, and I actually agree with you that other religions share certain customs and believes aswell. I myself am in no way religous. I believe in science, but like I said before, I even believe that the world we see, hear, smell, taste and feel might be just perception of something greater.

However, the reason why I'm raising questions about your believe is the very fact that persons like 'watchers' even exist. Seeing that the Hymn of One and the Order of Denderah (Please explain the difference to me aswell, you seem to refer to it as if it's the same thing) both arent a big enough religion to have enemies of power.

What are you afraid of? Furthermore, those 'watchers' seem to break the law by spying on unsuspecting people. And not only your own people (wich in a certain way is a bit acceptable), but non-believers and outsiders aswell.

You talk as if this religion is ow so very good bright and shiny. And I will even accept the fact that this story with Bree is an exception, that the kidnapping was nothing different than radical muslims bringing the war to america. Even if all that is true and in the core lies peace, self-exploration and scientific observation. Why would you need the watchers at all?

And don't give me that talk about people attacking you mentionning me and others on these boards, because we've done nothing more but opening a discussion on what you believe in. There has been no aggression from our side, while on your side...

We know the OoD and/or HoO have been involved in:
- Breaking privacy laws
- Kidnapping
- Murder
- Drugging people
- Brainwashing (Not quite sure here, the drugs might have been the biggest part, however making Daniel say what he said in that 'op' vid is very close to brainwashing in my book)

And yes it is true that there are radicals in all religions, but then again people have been very criticiues(is that a word?) against those religions aswell, but since they have a much more open religion and much more is known about them, we accept those religions as peacefull in general. (At least I do)

Don't get me wrong, I it's fine that people believe whatever they want. I will even go as far as saying that if anyone can join and leave whenever they want, a religious group should be allowed to slightly alter rules when it comes to their own people as long as they are open about it. (Example: If you have 'watchers' that spy on suspicious people, that's fine, as long as it's only on people of that same religion and they know the watchers exist) However, and I want to be very clear about this point, you should NEVER be allowed to mess with people outside your religion, people that did not choose your path. And that includes constantly trying to convert people aswell.

By breaking that last rule several times, you've damaged my trust in whatever is going on in your world. In my eyes you are not a peacefull group. And from what I've seen look much more like a sect than an actual religion.



My initial complaint was that an individual didn't act like an individual, but only in name of a group. While your statement on other religions doing this aswell is true up to some level. It was raised because Dannielle seemed to only speak in name of the order, refering to it whenever an opinion was given.

Why is that a problem? Because it makes people very easy to control. If they don't think for themselves, you can make them do anything as long as they blindly believe you. Sounds very sect like to me.

Even though you might not know or believe this, I think there is more going on than just a peacefull religion. I think higher ups have something to gain from all of this. And I think that only a very few of you people know about it, and the others are so convinced that they blindly follow those very few. That sounds more like dictatorship to me, and I like democracy, I do...

I think it's good that spades apoligized because of his tone. I'm not attacking you either, I'm just questioning certain aspects of your beleives, as I would with any other religion. I am not disrespectfull. As long as people leave others alone while believing whatever they want, thats all fine by me. However EricaCrowley, you on the other hand talked about foolish questions and seem to look down on me because I ask questions. You call me intollerant, while I'm am more tollerant than most people. You can do whatever you like, kill eachother for all I care, as long as everyone in your group agrees that's the right way to go (and no brainwashing or psychological torture allowed). I just don't think it is likely such a group will ever exist, nor do I think a group like yours could exist when everyone has 'free will' as their greatest right.

Ok, enough typing, let's see some reactions. Again I did not mean to attack or offend you.

René

Spades

I love your new avatar. Hunter is one of my favorite writers and he lived and died under his own terms. Also film versions of books are rarely as good as the novels but I think that Fear and Loathing came very close. There were just so many great performances in that film. You last avatar made me angry because for years I had heard about the film Refer Madness but they would never let me rent it when I was a child. Once I turned eighteen and took control of my own life, I forgot about the film until about a year ago. I guess it the kind of thing you want to watch when you’re young and still smoke that type of thing. However, I finally watched the film last year and found it to be awful. I had such high hopes that it would be this great anti-drug film that would keep me laughing from start to finish instead it was just a bore. I was furious.

I get furious often. People say it because I am so weak from being sick but I think it is just part of my nature. If it wasn’t for meditation I think I would be unbearable to those around me. They likely think that I’m unbearable as it is. I need to spend more time in meditation but to be honest most days I just sleep through my meditation time. I’ve also have been smoking a lot, like a pack of Davidoff cigarettes a day, and that is likely contributing to my health problems but frankly it makes the time go by faster.

This whole thing with Bree has just made me so angry. I understand that the secretive nature (or what was the secretive nature of our faith) resulted in her parents isolating her from the world. That was a bad thing because if she had just been given a little more childhood freedom then she would have never started posting those stupid vlogs. At the end of the day I blame Daniel for this whole mess even though I have no doubt that in his heart he was simply concerned for Bree safety. He should have never been told anything about the ceremony. I won’t let anyone harm him because I believe he acted with a pure heart. But I am still furious with him. I’m sick of these controlling males that think they can stick their noses in everyone’s lives because they wanted to be knights on white horses. But what is done is done and we’ll all learn from our mistakes.

This whole thing with Bree has forced the HoO to go public and I hate that. It has resulted in increased security which is driving me nuts. Too many mistakes have been made in this matter but that can’t be changed now. I still can’t get over the public recruiting thing that the Watchers did in California. I understood the need to find Jonas and bring him and Bree together. But for Christ’s sake why did they do it in such a fashion? This should have been done in a controlled environment. And what the hell was Bree thinking? She losses her virginity to Jonas at the right time of the month and then jumps out a window. Would it have killed her to spend a few more days there until someone could pick her up safely? Is Jonas so bad in bed that she found it necessary to bolt before even having a proper breakfast? He is an attractive boy, I would have even kept him around for a few days but not Bree she did the deed and then takes off in to the woods. If she dies then we are going to be in real trouble. So few people have the proper DNA to complete the ceremony.

I hate DNA. When these decisions where based on genealogical records the world must have been a simpler place, then some idiot at Cambridge discovers DNA and then we figure out the 90% of people who claimed pure blood had blood line’s tainted by Eve’s blood. Like everyone didn’t already know this was possible. In my grandmother’s time these decisions were based on faith in one’s blood line. I sure that deep down everyone knew that most families had become tainted with Eve’s blood. People have sex, lots of sex. I know I don’t pick my lovers based on their genealogy. However the next leader must be of a pure blood line. This won’t make the child a better person but it is tradition. Sometimes I laugh at tradition. Aleister Crowley was a prophet of G_D and Lucifer but he didn’t have pure blood. Still he was once of the most powerful practitioners of Magick in modern times. In some ways I would rather have Gemma give birth to the child but she is not pure in blood. I would do it myself but my doctors say that because of my weight that I could never carry a child to term. I have to wonder if that is true. I normally weight between 90 and 94 pounds and am 5 feet 4 inches in height. The reality is that if Bree dies I may have to at least try. G_D I can’t stand the thought of stretch marks, no wine, no cigarettes, and then what if the doctors are right and I loss the baby. I’ll have a screwed up body and no heir.

Erica

EricaCrowley wrote:SpadesThis whole thing with Bree has just made me so angry. I understand that the secretive nature (or what was the secretive nature of our faith) resulted in her parents isolating her from the world. That was a bad thing because if she had just been given a little more childhood freedom then she would have never started posting those stupid vlogs. At the end of the day I blame Daniel for this whole mess even though I have no doubt that in his heart he was simply concerned for Bree safety. He should have never been told anything about the ceremony. I won’t let anyone harm him because I believe he acted with a pure heart. But I am still furious with him. I’m sick of these controlling males that think they can stick their noses in everyone’s lives because they wanted to be knights on white horses. But what is done is done and we’ll all learn from our mistakes.

How dare you blame Daniel. He was conserned about a good friend. I think digging deeper like he did was actually a very good thing. He was worried. And what's the deal with keeping the ceremony details a secret, even for the ones involved? Why should it be a secret, afraid she'd run away? If everyone was open about those things, none of this would have happened. The very fact that your religion kept everything a secret even managed to freak out one of your own.

Tell me... do you cross the road with your eyes closed?

Then why do you expect others to do so, and blame people trying to prevent that for everything that goes wrong.

As for the DNA, why would that be important now if it wasn't before? You can't think that your religion was a joke/not pure when nobody knew about DNA. So why would it suddenly matter now?

EricaCrowley wrote:G_D I can’t stand the thought of stretch marks, no wine, no cigarettes, and then what if the doctors are right and I loss the baby. I’ll have a screwed up body and no heir.

Doesn't free will mean that you can refuse to do it then? Would you do that too if this tradition would not exist? This is what I mean with not being an individual, would you do this had the OoD or HoO never existed? I just don't see how this helps anyone. I do see how it would hurt you though...

I'm glad that we have managed to patch things over Erica. But I am too old for small thrills, not too mention the price is getting out of control.

To be honest, we are alike in some small ways. I have been killing packs of Pall Malls (hey, they're cheap), and have been feeling very drained myself. I was never one for warmer climates.

And good ol' Hunter's story is quite amazing.

I know I get angry quickly, especially when... situations arise, especially the one that is taking place currently.

But why the secrets? I do not think that attempting to hide yourselves will make people more understanding. Humanity reacts to things they do not understand, and they usually do so violently.

It might be in your best interest to put people's minds at ease, if you do not mind the suggestion.

Spades wrote:I'm glad that we have managed to patch things over Erica. But I am too old for small thrills, not too mention the price is getting out of control.

To be honest, we are alike in some small ways. I have been killing packs of Pall Malls (hey, they're cheap), and have been feeling very drained myself. I was never one for warmer climates.

And good ol' Hunter's story is quite amazing.

I know I get angry quickly, especially when... situations arise, especially the one that is taking place currently.

But why the secrets? I do not think that attempting to hide yourselves will make people more understanding. Humanity reacts to things they do not understand, and they usually do so violently.

It might be in your best interest to put people's minds at ease, if you do not mind the suggestion.

We never would have even gone public is it wasn’t for Bree. Being a “secret society” works for us. We don’t ask for tax free status like other religions instead we pay taxes on the property we hold and the income our companies make so that is the only interest the outside world should really have in us. We are a religion not a charity. I love how all these “great religions” use charity as a way to avoid taxation. Give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and leave me the f_ck alone is my motto. I may give a check to the Shriners once a year but as for the rest of these so called charities I just don’t trust them.

I don’t how I got on to this subject but sometimes secrecy is good

Erica

But why all the secrecy?

I just don't understand it.

Bree is alive. We have her back.

Gemma

gemmacrowley wrote:Bree is alive. We have her back.

Gemma

Would you be so kind to prove this statement?

BrightSilence wrote:

gemmacrowley wrote:Bree is alive. We have her back.

Gemma

Would you be so kind to prove this statement?

You'll hear from her soon.

Gemma

As I told you before, Gemma

Bree knows to keep her friends close
and her enemies MUCH closer

B is following in the legacy of T

Nieriel.Manwathiel wrote:As I told you before, Gemma

Bree knows to keep her friends close
and her enemies MUCH closer

B is following in the legacy of T

All that matters is that Bree is alive and well. As for T, I believe she is dead. At least I hope she is dead.

Erica

EricaCrowley wrote:

Nieriel.Manwathiel wrote:As I told you before, Gemma

Bree knows to keep her friends close
and her enemies MUCH closer

B is following in the legacy of T

All that matters is that Bree is alive and well. As for T, I believe she is dead. At least I hope she is dead.

Erica

Everyone knows T has too mad ninja skillz to be dead

she just retired to margaritaville...

EricaCrowley wrote:

Nieriel.Manwathiel wrote:As I told you before, Gemma

Bree knows to keep her friends close
and her enemies MUCH closer

B is following in the legacy of T

All that matters is that Bree is alive and well. As for T, I believe she is dead. At least I hope she is dead.

Erica

Let's see, we totally agree on the first point. But what the hell? peacefull people don't hope other people are dead.

Well, I havent seen the prove, but I'm glad if Bree is indeed ok. She would be better of with the HoO then wandering around in the woods without food I guess. However, I'm not fullr convinced of that yet.

BrightSilence wrote:

EricaCrowley wrote:

Nieriel.Manwathiel wrote:As I told you before, Gemma

Bree knows to keep her friends close
and her enemies MUCH closer

B is following in the legacy of T

All that matters is that Bree is alive and well. As for T, I believe she is dead. At least I hope she is dead.

Erica

Let's see, we totally agree on the first point. But what the hell? peacefull people don't hope other people are dead.

Well, I havent seen the prove, but I'm glad if Bree is indeed ok. She would be better of with the HoO then wandering around in the woods without food I guess. However, I'm not fullr convinced of that yet.

T is one scary bitch. I repeat I hope she is dead and rotting. I don’t think that I’m any more or less peaceful than anyone else. Did I ever say I was peaceful? I don’t pick fights but I have no problem ending them.

Erica

Daniel stated that a pair of helicopters were incoming.

Why two, I do not know, that seems like a little too much.

Unless they are sweeping the area looking for her.