Lonelygirl15

Posted: **Sat May 19, 2007 10:55 am**

Thalassemia made me think of Thelema. xD

You're right Gidget. It probably isn't that. Bree would need blood transfusions every month or whatever. But epogen... wasn't she being injected with epogen? Or was it some other drug?

All these minor details are confusing me. x.x

Posted: **Sat May 19, 2007 11:33 am**

raigne wrote:
nowherepixie wrote:Whats midi-chlorians?

Jules is definitely an Order kiddie. IMO. And is nothing more than bait. May have been tested for ceremony suitability as a kiddie, but didn't pass.
They let you use the Force. Use the Force Bree!

I'm such a trek nerd, I had no idea that's what those were

Posted: **Sat May 19, 2007 11:53 am**

I don't know whether we can say definitely that trait negative means that Jules isn't whatever.

It might mean that the lack of something is what the ceremony girl has to have. Maybe to be pure, or something. I dunno.

But that could work for having something in her blood. Idk.

Posted: **Sat May 19, 2007 2:12 pm**

The creators could completely make up something, and that could be the trait. It is a fictional show, so why not have some crazy fictional genetic trait?

(As long as it is not too crazy)

Posted: **Sat May 19, 2007 4:14 pm**

Gidget wrote:I did some research on blood traits with little luck. The only thing I found was something called "thalassemia trait" which can be treated with epogen, but it sounds like a bad thing and didn't seem to fit the story. *shrug*

Recently I saw a TED talks that is researching the possibility that cancer (a really bad thing) might be able to be used to regrow damaged organs (a pretty darn good thing). So I figure that thalassemia (akin to cycle cell anemia) may have some traits that are good also. I went digging.

Here's what I found so far: Epogen increases the globin in a person's blood, right? But there is more than one kind of globin. ( hope I'm not loosing people on this. If you have problems following, let me know and I'll try to explain better) Not only are there different kinds, but the amounts of each changes dependent on age!

At birth, ¥ globin swaps with ß globin, but alpha globin (sorry this font doesn't carry the full range of greek letters) has no counterpart. What would happen if a genetic marker showed up that created an opposite of the a globin? Say ∞ globin? That's where I'm going next.

ETA: On the way there, I took a left turn and came up with something else interesting.

In the above image you can see one other globin molecule, and it bears an uncanny resemblance to our little 8 symbol. It's the delta globin. researching that now.

Before I go, though, I'd like to point out that Thelassemia shows up in just about every racial/cultural group except northern European. Since Bree is obviously from Northern European (non Mediterranean) stock, this may have a significance.

Found this quote: "Our goal is to design a modified EKLF [?] that binds to the defective delta-globin promoter and enhances delta-globin gene expression. [1996]" gettin there.

Posted: **Sat May 19, 2007 6:04 pm**

You know, I'm just not happy the way this research is going. I'll be really disappointed if the whole solution to the ceremony is that Bree has the genetic code to cure cycle cell anemia--a a genetic defect that was well on it's way to a cure by 1997.

I just hope it's not that mundane.

Posted: **Sat May 19, 2007 6:05 pm**

Trait negative could be a positive thing perhaps? ...wishful thinking...

Posted: **Sat May 19, 2007 6:20 pm**

RoseCrowley wrote:Trait negative could be a positive thing perhaps? ...wishful thinking...

It's neither, really. On a medical report "trait negative" means that the specific thing they were looking for was not there. If they were looking for something bad, like an anomaly, then "negative" means good.

Think if a Dr. said you tested negative for cancer. Good, yes?

Posted: **Sat May 19, 2007 7:50 pm**

sack36 wrote:
Gidget wrote:

At birth, ¥ globin swaps with ß globin, but alpha globin (sorry this font doesn't carry the full range of greek letters) has no counterpart. What would happen if a genetic marker showed up that created an opposite of the a globin? Say ? globin? That's where I'm going next.

ok i may or may not be confused. couldn't that teal thing represented by a squiggly thing in the lower left corner be alpha's counterpart? (sorry i'm the least articulate person ever)
i dont' know where i'm going with this
i tried to look up thalassemia too... but all the techinical terms made my eyes cross.

good job finding all this stuff!

Posted: **Sat May 19, 2007 7:52 pm**

Interesting stuff there, sack36. I wish I understood it better, but it definitely sounds like something that could be worked into the plot.

At this point it seems definite that Bree's significance has something to do with her genetics, specifically something that can be found in her blood. I kind of share your hope that it's not something so mundane as a random cure for a random condition, but I don't think it will be something like that.

The ceremony, after all, is something that's done rarely, but is done on more than one occassion. So I think there's something to it beyond just producing medical cures. Perhaps some significance that only seems relevant to the people leading the Order.

Hopefully somebody else with an idea on all that will come along and be able to put the pieces together better than me.

Posted: **Sat May 19, 2007 8:26 pm**

cbizzle44 wrote:
sack36 wrote:
Gidget wrote:

At birth, ¥ globin swaps with ß globin, but alpha globin (sorry this font doesn't carry the full range of greek letters) has no counterpart. What would happen if a genetic marker showed up that created an opposite of the a globin? Say ? globin? That's where I'm going next.
ok i may or may not be confused. couldn't that teal thing represented by a squiggly thing in the lower left corner be alpha's counterpart? (sorry i'm the least articulate person ever)
i dont' know where i'm going with this
i tried to look up thalassemia too... but all the techinical terms made my eyes cross.
good job finding all this stuff!
Unfortunately, the treatise that went along with that graph sounded like it was sure that "that squiggly thing" (that's so cute!) was not alpha's counterpart. I haven't struggled through all the info there yet, so I'll get back to you on the counterpart to that.

I did, however, come up with another interesting bit in another medical article. "zeta or epsilon chain [mutations] have not been reported" was a throw-away line that I thought was worth a look. All the chains that were reported had some adverse effect to the hemoglobin in the blood. Usually it resulted in varying degrees of Thalassemia or CCA. What if the zeta or epsilon mutations (obviously extremely rare) provided a positive effect rather than a negative effect? Sorta like turning that 8 on it's side...

Maybe they're looking for the cure for death.

Lurker said:
Perhaps some significance that only seems relevant to the people leading the Order.
Would you agree that finding that particular cure would be worth the Order's time?

The only real craw sticking nit is that it doesn't really fit with the HoO and the religious mumbo-jumbo. And for that matter, neither does the strong science grounding Bree was given. That's the thing that's making me cry bollix!

Posted: **Sat May 19, 2007 8:53 pm**

First let me say hello to everyone. This is my first post here. Just watched the whole series straight thru. Anyway heres my thoughts on the ceremony and the trait. I think they are trying to create some kind of pregnancy. Lets start with the "iron pills". During a normal pregnancy a common problem is low iron. So assuming that they were actually iron pills perhaps they were buffering her system for an upcoming pregnancy. The shots were along the same line. One of the things that I had read that the shots were used for was to increase iron production. Now with that said, on to the "trait". My guess is that this trait that Bree has makes her a prime candidate for some form of genetic manipulation. I may be way off here but this is the first thing that comes to mind as I watch the viedos.

Posted: **Sat May 19, 2007 9:07 pm**

theplayer01 wrote:First let me say hello to everyone. This is my first post here. Just watched the whole series straight thru. Anyway heres my thoughts on the ceremony and the trait. I think they are trying to create some kind of pregnancy. Lets start with the "iron pills". During a normal pregnancy a common problem is low iron. So assuming that they were actually iron pills perhaps they were buffering her system for an upcoming pregnancy. The shots were along the same line. One of the things that I had read that the shots were used for was to increase iron production. Now with that said, on to the "trait". My guess is that this trait that Bree has makes her a prime candidate for some form of genetic manipulation. I may be way off here but this is the first thing that comes to mind as I watch the viedos.

May I suggest you read a few of the back posts. Expecially those in Plot Discussion. We did discuss the possibility of pregnancy and genetic manipulation, and although we haven't thrown the possibility completely out, I think the majority think it's more likely some sort of bleeding. Most of our logic hinged on the Epogen found. It's not something you would normally give to a pregnant woman, and it also seems unlikely the shots didn't contain that.

I'm not sure where we're headed at this point, though. I'm sorta mucking around in the globin types as a possible idea. It's not fully formed yet. H*ll! It's not fully understood yet! LOL!

Where ever you go from here, at least you'll be trying to forge ahead! Good luck with it. We need more of us looking at the clues we have and trying to form viable theories. The boys sure don't seem interested in doing it!

Posted: **Sat May 19, 2007 9:31 pm**

theplayer01 wrote:First let me say hello to everyone. This is my first post here.

Welcome to the forum.

sack36 wrote:Lurker said:
Perhaps some significance that only seems relevant to the people leading the Order.
Would you agree that finding that particular cure would be worth the Order's time?

Sure. I was just suggesting that maybe whatever this is about is something that would only be special to them.

Posted: **Sat May 19, 2007 11:30 pm**

Good job on all the research sack36!

I started looking into that last night but then i gave up. I tried google-ing a whole bunch combinations of phrases to try and get a list of "blood traits" but it was all going way over my head. And as somebody said earlier, this is fictional so it doesn't have to be 100% sciency. They are pretty good about sticking to real-world stuff, but if it is a ceremonial or religious trait, it could be open to interpretation. We are probably on the right track.

Lonelygirl15

Trait Negative.

Hello to everyone

Re: Hello to everyone