0134-Watch This! [2/16/07]

Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:14 am

bethy wrote:Remember, Gemma told Bree about the Watchers...she encouraged them to "flee the Watchers". Everyone assumed the Watchers were somehow a bad thing. Why? Now that we know Gemma was working for OpAPHID, it seems odd that she'd encourage Bree to get away from one of her own, doesn't it?

Not really. She also told them to look for bugs (something that Tachyon warned Daniel about also), and told them to avoid the police (something that Bree had already said she intended to avoid doing anyway because she knew the Order had people in the judicial system on their side). Gemma's advice probably had to shift between helpful and not helpful to maintain trust.

bethy wrote:That's why I'm thinking that The Watchers are part of The Order...but not part of OpAPHID. Sort of how Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker were both Jedi..both had "The Force" --- one using it the way it was intended, the other, not so much. Also, note the Watchers wear dark suits. The Oppies in the elevator were wearing dark leather jackets (and jeans/slacks). Not the same "uniform" if you will.

While the matter of the outfits is true, Lucy has wore stuff similar to the Watcher "uniform" in the past and so have people she's been with (the deacon from "On The Run" didn't have a tie, but the bald guy in "The Ceremony" seemed to have the standard Watcher outfit).

bethy wrote:Plus, add that the guy in this video made no attempt to run after Bree/Jonas...or even hit Jonas back.

Actually, he was about to slug Jonas but Bree jumps between them and the guy pulls his fist back so he won't hit her:

http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=watcherez9.jpg
http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... er2hz3.jpg
http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... er3qg4.jpg

Balmung wrote:Ok, I definitely think everyone is overestimating this guy's strength. He's a fairly big guy, not huge, but he definitely outweighs Jonas. You can hear the smack when Jonas hits the guy's hand, but it looks like the goon definitely leans into it.

It looks to me like he doesn't lean in until Jonas' left hand and the Watcher's right hand go down, and then he's readying his own punch, but I'll grant you that he's got more mass than Jonas.

bethy wrote:I never said they were good or evil, or that they weren't all part of the Order. In fact, I said it seems that there is a division within The Order...a war of sorts.

I don't think there's been anything to indicate that, myself. Again, we saw a guy in what looked to be standard Watcher apparel in "The Ceremony."

Balmung · Post by **Balmung** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:15 am

or-- is it possible the the watchers aren't a part of the order at all, and gemma warned her against them because she knew they would act against OpAphid's plans?

Ashley · Post by **Ashley** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:18 am

Well, wouldn't it be funny if the man turned out to be someone from Publisher's Clearing House Sweepstakes? Teehee

Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:19 am

Balmung wrote:or-- is it possible the the watchers aren't a part of the order at all, and gemma warned her against them because she knew they would act against OpAphid's plans?

If that were the case, I don't think this guy would have done a very good job of keeping Bree safe by spooking her and her friends into leaving. He didn't even try to explain himself.

Also, if these guys were anti-Order (the Culper Ring?), I'd think Tachyon would know something about them and would have told BDJ that they're okay (actually, from what I remember, Tachyon killed her Watcher). Also, doesn't Tachyon wear a white outfit?

Balmung · Post by **Balmung** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:23 am

lurker wrote:It looks to me like he doesn't lean in until Jonas' left hand and the Watcher's right hand go down, and then he's readying his own punch, but I'll grant you that he's got more mass than Jonas.

yeah, you're definitely right about that. this is directly after Jonas' punch, with his hand still in the watcher's grip. he's definitely standing up straight.

Balmung · Post by **Balmung** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:25 am

Lurker wrote:
Balmung wrote:or-- is it possible the the watchers aren't a part of the order at all, and gemma warned her against them because she knew they would act against OpAphid's plans?
If that were the case, I don't think this guy would have done a very good job of keeping Bree safe by spooking her and her friends into leaving. He didn't even try to explain himself.

Also, if these guys were anti-Order (the Culper Ring?), I'd think Tachyon would know something about them and would have told BDJ that they're okay (actually, from what I remember, Tachyon killed her Watcher). Also, doesn't Tachyon wear a white outfit?

yeah that's true. he would make it clear who's side he was on.

say what? she did? i didn't know that...

Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:25 am

Balmung wrote:yeah, you're definitely right about that. this is directly after Jonas' punch, with his hand still in the watcher's grip. he's definitely standing up straight.

Hey, nice screenshot (you're going frame-by-frame, right?). I tried getting one but I couldn't pause it right (Revver's more jerky when paused and unpaused than YouTube).

Thanks for getting that, by the way.

Balmung · Post by **Balmung** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:29 am

yeah no sweat, i actually video capped the whole thing and i'm going through frame-by-frame on windows movie maker.

it's working nicely

Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:33 am

Cool. I wish I could find a way to import the video into movie maker. Or at least get it up on YouTube.

By the way, I'll see if I can find the thing about Tachyon killing her Watcher. I want to make sure I'm right about that and not giving you anything I'm just remembering wrong. It's been a while. I'll get back with you in this thread soon (hopefully).

Balmung · Post by **Balmung** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:34 am

sounds good.

i'm gonna make a play-by-play of the video and post it as a new thread, so everyone can see just what happened.

Magesa · Post by **Magesa** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:44 am

Lurker wrote:Cool. I wish I could find a way to import the video into movie maker. Or at least get it up on YouTube.

By the way, I'll see if I can find the thing about Tachyon killing her Watcher. I want to make sure I'm right about that and not giving you anything I'm just remembering wrong. It's been a while. I'll get back with you in this thread soon (hopefully).

Wow... I've missed a lot not keeping up with the ARG! That's interesting!

Well, there has been some good evidence here against the "Watchers are good" theory, but I'm going to remember it.

sarahbear · Post by **sarahbear** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:45 am

ok, maybe i'm just blind, but i'm not seein a cowboy hat anywhere in the car. the only thing i see that sortof resembles a cowboy hat is actually a glare on the driver's window. so, could someone point out where this "cowboy hat" is supposed to be?

essie · Post by **essie** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:52 am

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this before but could Watchers not be part of the evil people. By the looks of it seemed like Gemma warned Bree to not trust them but that was before we found out Gemma was part of the order. I think that Watchers are the protectors for Bree sent from her mother and father to make sure that the Order does not hurt her. Think about it, the watchers have been watching for so long they could basically have killed her on the spot. Especially in this video, he looked like those bodyguards and when Bree stepped in between them... the Watcher didn't attempt to hit her. Just some thoughts. =S

IN SUMMARY.

Watchers are good guys? I agree.

Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:03 am

Okay, Tachyon doesn't call the person she killed a Watcher, but she refers to the person as a "babysitter." On Nov. 26, the ARG players got a drop from Tachyon that included the message "Sorry for that mess back there, I guess I'm too old for a babysitter." This was a few days after Bree and Daniel's "Fleeing The Watcher" video and the same day as OpAphid's "Adventures in Babysitting" video (when B&D suspected they were being watched and Bree lost her room key, leading to their room being ransacked).

Then on Nov. 30, a forum member got an e-mail from her asking how to get blood stains out of white pants. Finally, a couple of weeks later there was a message from Tachyon to Brother where she referenced her "babysitter" again and her "escape" from them.

You can see those three messages I've referenced here:

http://lonelygirl15.com/forum/viewtopic ... 0759#80759
http://lonelygirl15.com/forum/viewtopic ... 5685#85685
http://lonelygirl15.com/forum/viewtopic ... 397#104397

So Tachyon never officially referred to the person she killed as a Watcher, but she did refer to them as a babysitter (which kind of sounds like what a Watcher does) around the same time as Bree and Daniel believed a Watcher was following them. I guess it's not concrete that the person Tach killed was a Watcher, but it maybe was implied. I remember at the time we all thought for sure it was one, but that was also before Gemma's outing.

Anyway, with at least the Watcher we saw in this video, I hardly think he's a good guy since he didn't try to explain himself as being there to help and actually made a move to counterattack Jonas (someone who has risked life and limb to protect Bree more than any Watcher so far has been known to).

Balmung · Post by **Balmung** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:04 am

hmm yeah things deffinitely don't look good for the case of watchers being good.

ok well i finished the play-by-play. i'll post it as a new thread for those who are interested.