I meant that the situation itself gives the impression that the determination reached will be relevant. In the end, I don't think it was because 1) it was obvious where the Creators wanted it to go (which is where it should have gone) and 2) Bree ended up there at Jonas' anyway -- which is precisely what she's had her self set on for the last two weeks.EliCash wrote:They didn't. Only days before the poll they said that this wasn't going to be "Choose your own adventure."Which brings up the question of "Why bother to pretend its like that?"
Again, I'm not even addressing Daniel's response to the poll. I'm just addressing the relevance of there being a poll in the first place. I can understand the notion that this tells us something about Daniel because he rejected the poll, but, again, that could have been achieved every bit as easily with the fictional forum -- and the outcome of the forum advice was never in doubt anyway. If Daniel's reaction here was the only way he could respond to the poll/Holly's decision, then his response was a foregone conclusion before the "The Test" video was ever made.EliCash wrote:THEY DID have an impact on what follows here. Did you not see Daniel actively rejecting what the majority told him to do? If not, you should watch the video again. It's all there. That's part of the story! I don't get why you don't see this. It would be contrary to Daniel's stubborn character to simply ignore what he thinks he should do based on a poll.The way that you know interactive storytelling is actually interactive storytelling is because the suggestions (call them "commands" if you prefer) of the audience actually have an impact on what follows.
Do you see what I'm trying to say there? I think it was all probably going to happen that way anyway -- right down to Daniel's reaction. Why else pick a forum member who was an avid supporter of Jonas in the first place? I'm not saying that Holly shouldn't have been picked, because she has been a very loyal and vocal fan for months now and deserved to be picked as much as anyone. I'm just questioning the motivation behind that particular decision and what that suggests for what was intended to happen regarding the poll and, consequently, Daniel's reaction to it.
I would argue that (forum members could be plants of the Order as easily as Gemma or Jonas, after all), but I don't think we should really do much more discussion of what Daniel's reaction was to the poll until we know for sure that this whole thing wasn't just a ruse on his and Bree's part. They could have easily faked the whole "split" for all we know right now.EliCash wrote:(If you want to argue it was outside of his character to have a poll in the first place, however, then I might agree. But that's a completely different argument.)
I'm not saying I think that's what happened, but I think it might be foolish of us to argue this or that regarding how he reacted until we know more. Honestly, my initial reaction to his behavior was "Whoa, what happened to trusting what the forum decided? It was your idea, Daniel, so what the heck?" -- but right now I don't think we know for sure that he didn't trust what they decided.
Again, this ties back into my statement that I wasn't concerned about Daniel's reaction to the whole thing so much as the notion of whether or not the outcome of the decision was ever in doubt.
Of course, I don't know that the Creators wouldn't have this split occur anyway if the poll had gone in favor of not trusting Jonas -- but, again, I think it was all stacked in favor of that (from the selection of the forum's representative to the rather black-and-white depiction of options in the poll -- despite there being more than just two options), so we'll never know anyway. I guess my point is really this: we know the Creators wanted the story to go this way. Therefore it should have gone this way. So why even make it an issue of interactivity? Pseudo or otherwise?
No, I certainly don't want that. As I said, I'd do away with the whole notion of interactive storytelling were it me. Up until after the fake ceremony, as far as most of us knew, we were just watching a story being told to us and there wasn't any interactive aspect to it anyway.EliCash wrote:And by the way, my use of the word "commands" was to suggest what the poll was NOT. If it WAS "Choose your own adventure," THEN it'd be a command. That's my point. You want them to be commands, rather than actual interaction that real characters respond to in ways keeping with their character.
But will it be relevant? That's my concern, for the purposes of this discussion anyway. I'd, of course, like it to not be a disaster again -- which it was for the reasons you've mentioned. That said, though, I do still respect the Creators for honoring their word and going through with trying the chat when they said they would, even knowing they weren't prepared.EliCash wrote:I agree the chat was ridiculous. I blame a lack of preparing for the event, along with technical problems. Next time, I'd imagine, it will be much better.If you look at the chat from Nov. 28th, what effect did the audience have there? Absolutely none. They weren't even needed.
I enjoyed it too. I'm not knocking on the video. It finally got the story to begin moving again and the acting was superb. I'm just addressing the notion of the whole interactive element.EliCash wrote:However, I think this poll stuff is completely different. And it resulted in a fantastic video the LG community has, by huge margins, enjoyed.
But I would contest that this wasn't real interaction (for the reasons I've mentioned above, particularly the "stacking").EliCash wrote:We certainly can disagree on whether it made a "difference," but I have a different standard. That's one of interactivity. There's no denying this was actual, real interaction. That wouldn't be the case with the examples you cited.To put it another way, as many of us read/watch a story, we're shouting suggestions or commands to the characters involved, yet we might as well not being doing so for all the difference it makes.
I agree that it's better to start small, as there's going to be some kinks to work out, and you don't want a kink in what was intended to be something huge. But if they're really going to try it, I'm going to offer my honest analysis -- and I think they've started out too small so far.EliCash wrote:I would actually push for it to make more of a "difference" with the direction of the plot -- but not TOO much more. It's better for them to start small than big on this, in my opinion.
Not really. They can just do what they've done before. "Some of you have said..." or "The people on the forum decided..." etc. Something like that.EliCash wrote:By the way, as far as this "fictional forum" stuff, it wouldn't work realistically, anyway. They would have to set up a fake forum with fake people posting and make fake polls.
I think that they should do that -- but I think it's pointless to even bother with the notion of the forum if it's not going to make a difference we can truly see and know was relevant. Something like Daniel liking Bree. We didn't find out until way after the fact that our opinions impacted that, but that was obviously a relevant development that the viewers had a hand in. It's not something that completely changed the course of the story -- but it was relevant nonetheless. A living, breathing, walking, certified impact.EliCash wrote:Why not just use our own forum, and allow us to respond? Then they can work our response into how the characters would respond as is appropriate?
Characters who are part of the story already don't apply in the concept of interactive storytelling. She's already there, being directly interacted with, and making a consistent difference.EliCash wrote:Bree ignored Gemma's advice, as well. Are you suggesting that they didn't interact in the story? You would have to, since she didn't make "a difference."
I agree that there's some interactivity going on there, for sure. It's too bad that's the side story, though. Then again, OpAphid is the aspect of LG15 being billed as an ARG.EliCash wrote:Edit: I just want to point out that part of LG is the OpAphid stuff, and there's no mistaking how incredibly interactive THAT is.
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