0220 - "Rockin' the Boat" [06/26/07]

[matsie]

You know, I wonder if the Creators remember back in film school (they went to film school, right?) when you're taught about not interrupting the flow of your piece. I feel like the C's have completely forgotten this lesson because the flow of LG15 has become completely derailed.

matsie, I think that all your comments about the plot/directing aspects of this series are spot on. I wish they'd hire you as part of their writing team.

My guess about this filler video is that it's supposed to build tension... and because of the organic nature of the series, it's tension built mainly in the viewers instead of also in the video itself,(we're supposed to get in a verbal frenzy of ideas and research bon mots)... and "Establish via previous filler video that Spencer is the _only_ link to hope they have for helping Bree (after the "HAPPINESS" video makes it clear she is resigned to her impending fate)...make Spencer nigh mute to Jonas, Daniel and Sarah (and, presumably Taylor)... separate the rescue team, (throw a hint of another wheel of sexual tension with Jonas/Talyor).... and then stall some more and hope the PG-nookie keeps enough people happy, while all speculate and get tense about the next video and what may be happening to Bree whilst the dithering continues.

That's a guess... maybe I'm giving the Creators too much (or too little) credit.

haha. What I would give to help write this series. I had a lot of ideas of how they could have done things better (don't we all?).

Anywho, I think you're probably pretty spot on with your analysis of the video. The Creator's tend not to vary the type of plot ploys, and I wouldn't doubt that some sort of love triangle/pentagon/hexagon may develop.

[mellie3204]

You know, I wonder if the Creators remember back in film school (they went to film school, right?) when you're taught about not interrupting the flow of your piece. I feel like the C's have completely forgotten this lesson because the flow of LG15 has become completely derailed.
...
I also must add, that when being taught about keeping the flow of a piece, it doesn't matter how much you like a scene or how funny/cute it is, if it doesn't match the tone/flow of the rest of the piece, you gotta chuck it. It's a hard thing to do as a filmmaker.

I agree 100% with you Matsie. This series has completely lost any narrative thrust. Lonelygirl15 was a good idea, but the Creators should have hired or consulted a writer to establish some kind of long-term plot arc, and then done some basic reading about filmmaking.

Thank you. I think from the get-go they should have had a basic plot arc and a time table of how long they wanted things to play out. I understand that a lot of the plot was lengthened and further developed because of user input, or at the very least user popularity, but flying the seat of your pants can only work for a certain amount of time before a set plan has to be put in place.

The organic nature of LG15 is wonderful, but it's the fact there is NO structure that ruins it for me. A lot of these filler videos are not bad videos in and of themselves, much like certain deleted scenes from a film are not bad scenes, but they do break from the natural flow and pace of the series as a whole and when we're getting them one after another as if they stockpiled the damned things...well, it really detracts from the viewing experience by completely halting the plot.

Character development can easily be done in both these "filler" videos and the "meaty" videos. Furthermore, most videos really should balance the pros and cons of both "filler" and "meaty" videos. A lot of people seem to think that the "filler" videos are key for character development and I firmly disagree.


...wow. I'm sorry about how long-winded that was.

I have to say, I'm agreeing with a lot of this too Matsie and AlanY, deserves full quoting.

The pacing shifts have really been a problem for me, and I just feel like the wind's gone out of my sails lately. I'm desperately hanging out for videos where there's proper exciting plot development, resolutions and then new leads and stories to follow.

*sigh*

[numbvox]

Frankly, I couldn't disagree with the pacing problems more.

Here's why - this is somewhat of a new media, and the main appeal of it is in it's "real world, real time" format. Real time. If the storyline went along at the sort of standard storyline pacing that you're all talking about, it would be 100% unbelievable. Shit doesn't just happen on a perfectly systematic time frame. How utterly ridiculous would this all be if twice a week something progressive happened? Real life isn't like that, and I think the Creators are smart enough to realize that. So they have two options: 1. Either only update when it's been a logical gap in time for something worthwhile to have happened, and in doing so likely lose a large chunk of fanbase due to their inconsistent and infrequent updating. or 2. Keep the updates coming with various videos focused on character development and relationships rather than the main storyline.

Remember, this isn't a TV show - the format they choose don't allow them to just say "3 months later" whenever it fits them.

[matsie]

Frankly, I couldn't disagree with the pacing problems more.

Here's why - this is somewhat of a new media, and the main appeal of it is in it's "real world, real time" format. Real time. If the storyline went along at the sort of standard storyline pacing that you're all talking about, it would be 100% unbelievable. Shit doesn't just happen on a perfectly systematic time frame. How utterly ridiculous would this all be if twice a week something progressive happened? Real life isn't like that, and I think the Creators are smart enough to realize that. So they have two options: 1. Either only update when it's been a logical gap in time for something worthwhile to have happened, and in doing so likely lose a large chunk of fanbase due to their inconsistent and infrequent updating. or 2. Keep the updates coming with various videos focused on character development and relationships rather than the main storyline.

Remember, this isn't a TV show - the format they choose don't allow them to just say "3 months later" whenever it fits them.

You missed what I was saying. Though this may be a new format does not mean that there are not certain all encompassing facts about any fictional filmed media and one of those things is pacing. This does not necessarily mean that every video must be an incredible plot point, but rather that a flow as to how the series moves along must be made. The pacing on LG15 has been completely disregarded of late. I am not talking about the pacing of a tv show or of a film, I am talking about the pacing set prior to this point in the story in the Breeniverse.

[numbvox]

Blah. I typed up a huge reply, then firefox crashed and I lost it. So whatever, I'll just agree to disagree with you - you're welcome to think I'm an idiot or whatever else. Blah.

[matsie]

Blah. I typed up a huge reply, then firefox crashed and I lost it. So whatever, I'll just agree to disagree with you - you're welcome to think I'm an idiot or whatever else. Blah.

I never said you were an idiot, did I? Gosh. I'm sorry if I came across as calling you an idiot, I sure didn't mean to! I totally understand if you have a different opinion than I do, that's why it's an opinion! If you ever care to take up the conversation again, I'm here. I like friendly debate. (Again, I'm sorry if I somehow made you think I said you were stupid...)

[numbvox]

lol, sorry - I didn't mean to come off as defensive. I didn't think you called me an idiot or anything such at any point. I was just frustrated over losing my reply. I didn't really want to type it all out, but I wanted to acknowledge that I know that typically non-response is "losing" in internet debates.

lol Don't worry, we're cool.


And maybe when I'm not at work I'll even take the time to type out my whole reply again.

[A-Nun-Is-Mouse]

Ok, I'll stop lurking simply because I'm actually really pleased to see some intelligent debate on these forums.

I actually agree a lot with numbvox, so much so that I wish he hadn't posted so I could claim the opinion as my own .

The LG series is a new media series which means that it is different from other 'traditional media' shows. More specifically two of the things that make it different are that each video only lasts a few minutes and that the viewer can watch it at any time.

My feeling about series like LG15 are that their producers hope that the viewer integrates into his own life. So instead of us all watching/listening to some show broadcast at the same time I might watch the video before breakfast whilst you might watch the video at dinner (which actually could be the same time depending on time zones, but you get the point). The fact that it's short increases the ability for anyone to fit this into their schedule.

I think this makes an important difference into how the series works. When I'm watching 90 minutes of dramatic film I expect it to all flow - to have a beginning, middle and end or whatever (not a film student, so feel free to tell me if I've misunderstood what you mean by flow matsie). But for an internet video series those two minutes I take to watch a video are just two minutes of my daily (or bi-daily) life. So the 'flow' of the video is actually integrated into the 'flow' of the rest of my day. Imagine I watch a really dramatic video and then an hour later my friend says something really funny; I'm not going to look at him like he's an idiot for joking whilst Bree's fate is on the line, I'm going to laugh my head off. The point is that the tone is naturally disrupted by my own life and thus the 'flow' that was important in a film is significantly less important in this case.

I'm not saying you're wrong matsie, it's quite obvious that there is some truth in what you're saying. But I do not think you can put the 'rules' of film-making up as the same level of unbreakable rule when talking about internet video. I don't like to draw bold lines between things, because lets face it this things all occur in different shades of grey, but film (and television) is more of an escapist medium whilst I feel that internet video is far more integrated into daily life.

[suze900]

Very good insights, a-nun-is-mouse. I had vague thoughts in that direction, but this isn't a creative medium that I know much about--I just enjoy the videos and reading the forum posts.

I'm working on a post about ways to enjoy following a series like this, from a mood health and mental wellness POV, since I do know something about that.

[A-Nun-Is-Mouse]

Very good insights, a-nun-is-mouse. I had vague thoughts in that direction, but this isn't a creative medium that I know much about--I just enjoy the videos and reading the forum posts.

I'm working on a post about ways to enjoy following a series like this, from a mood health and mental wellness POV, since I do know something about that.

With all the bitching on this forums I sometimes think that enjoying the series is the furthest from these peoples minds .

(Wow, it took only 2 posts for me to insult the entire population of the forums. If I don't ever post again, presume I have been kidnapped and psychologically tortured.)

[AlanY]

I understand that Lonelygirl15 is a form of new media, and thus some conventions don't apply, but the narrative/story/flow itself has fallen apart. Regardless of the medium -- serial novel, short story, movie, TV show, photo montage, opera, campfire ghost story, whatever -- there is a certain irreducible core of storytelling that needs to get through.

Remember what hooked many of us on the series in the first place? At the beginning, there was a plot arc. There was tension because we knew the ceremony was coming, we were discovering details bit by bit in a progression that made sense. Sure there was a lot of filler, but there was an overarching narrative too.

Then two things happened. First, it became increasingly clear that the Creators were just making up the story as they were going along, with no long term progression or arc in mind (perhaps with some hazy goals, but no pre-planned idea of how to get there). There is much less tension because nothing is fixed. Everything is being made up on the fly. I doubt they have more than a week and a half planned out in advance at any one time. When there's no tension, the audience just doesn't care as much -- our interest doesn't build. Second, with little or no plot arc in mind, the videos themselves started to lose their flow.

To put this a bit more concretely, when there is no plot arc, we begin to stop caring about the plot. e.g. Why does Jonas decide to go visit Taylor? Is it a good decision? A bad decision? We don't really care about it because we sense it was a flight of fancy by the Creators, made up probably because it was convenient. We don't get emotionally wrapped up in Jonas' "plan" because it could be reversed on a dime by the Creators. The way things have been going, he could do one video in Texas and then decide to go right back. Everything seems arbitrary.

[juliegrrl20]

This video disgusts me. Daniel is so her pawn. He follows her around like a little puppy dog. And why do we care if the are screwing around anyway?? I am so over those to. Can they PLEASE stop being so freaking horney already??

[Sam fan]

With all the bitching on this forums I sometimes think that enjoying the series is the furthest from these peoples minds .

(Wow, it took only 2 posts for me to insult the entire population of the forums. If I don't ever post again, presume I have been kidnapped and psychologically tortured.)

Nah... I just think you're a mole from the Order trying to get people to keep watching so some of us gradually get brainwashed and have an inexplicable urge to join the HoO! (My happiness is watching LoneyGirl15...it's all gooood...[...] my happiness...is... the Hymn of One... the videos are...fun!...and the hymn of one is... bbbzzzzt....)

[robtomorrow]

I understand that Lonelygirl15 is a form of new media, and thus some conventions don't apply, but the narrative/story/flow itself has fallen apart. Regardless of the medium -- serial novel, short story, movie, TV show, photo montage, opera, campfire ghost story, whatever -- there is a certain irreducible core of storytelling that needs to get through.

Remember what hooked many of us on the series in the first place? At the beginning, there was a plot arc. There was tension because we knew the ceremony was coming, we were discovering details bit by bit in a progression that made sense. Sure there was a lot of filler, but there was an overarching narrative too.

Then two things happened. First, it became increasingly clear that the Creators were just making up the story as they were going along, with no long term progression or arc in mind (perhaps with some hazy goals, but no pre-planned idea of how to get there). There is much less tension because nothing is fixed. Everything is being made up on the fly. I doubt they have more than a week and a half planned out in advance at any one time. When there's no tension, the audience just doesn't care as much -- our interest doesn't build. Second, with little or no plot arc in mind, the videos themselves started to lose their flow.

To put this a bit more concretely, when there is no plot arc, we begin to stop caring about the plot. e.g. Why does Jonas decide to go visit Taylor? Is it a good decision? A bad decision? We don't really care about it because we sense it was a flight of fancy by the Creators, made up probably because it was convenient. We don't get emotionally wrapped up in Jonas' "plan" because it could be reversed on a dime by the Creators. The way things have been going, he could do one video in Texas and then decide to go right back. Everything seems arbitrary.

Well said Alan,

A couple of your points have been confirmed in interviews, first

"(We) wrote an initial 3 month story arc....initial idea was end with a cliffhanger, then videos stops, then make an independent low budget film." - Mesh Finders
http://workbookproject.com/?p=260

second,

"Production of "Lonelygirl15'' is fairly simple. The script is written one week, the show is shot the next, and a week later it is uploaded"- Greg Goodfried

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/s ... ertainment

[kjones]

grr why hasen't there been a new video. What's going on???